Force 120 - Multiple failures with audio/video - Open Analysis Please!

[95Bayliner]

Hey folks... As the birds fly south for winter it looks like I have my project cut out for me. I purchased the boat mid-summer for family recreation, fishing, and relaxing. The motor seemed relatively fine with a few minor hiccups now and again, assuming that's expected being a 95. This is my first boat and I love it and hate it at the same time. Mostly hating it right now as things went bad this weekend, although I am determined to get her operating again and hopefully better than before with y?alls advice!

Background:

1995 Force 120 ELPT (Electric start, Long shaft with Power Trim)
Model: H120412RD
Serial: 0E120544

I recently isolated my stereo with a use of a VSR and a secondary battery. I purchased a brand new Blue Top Optima -dual purpose battery which is used as my cranking battery. Repurposed the original battery as my ?house? since it more closely matched the specs of the VSR. Everything was working fine and the fish have been biting so I?ve been going out a few times a week!

I?ve been reading on the forums because I noticed the idle was starting to stumble a bit and/or die. I also started to have problems with starting and have to quick start in nuetral, then into gear to go (I?ve read that this is the proper procedure in the manual but I bought the boat with it being able to start off the key). I had to acclimate myself in finding the right threshold of throttle or it would rev up beyond belief. Seemed like the harder time it would have starting, the more throttle would be required to start. From time to time I would hear a horrible ?rapid tumbling marbles? sound usually resolved by shifting into gear or into neutral. Found a thread started by buzzbomber and thought it might be the reeds, still looking into it. I was able to capture the sound bit below ? beware, it?s horrible! Is this the sound of broken reeds or something else?

http://youtu.be/pT7eRmLxsTY

http://youtu.be/C_LT4BIz31k

Here?s a few video/audio of the motor failing to start.

http://youtu.be/mJGr0HPzwqQ

http://youtu.be/CURNdDERhF0

A fellow boater came by and said the priming bulb felt flooded and wasn?t getting enough gas to the motor. Pulled off bulb to examine, and it drained as I pulled off the tubes, tubes look fine. Connected back up, bulb primed as normal but will replace anyways. I noticed a bit excessive fuel in the water. Removed cowl and discovered fuel leaks from the bottom carb and a little at the fuel filter. Repeated attempts to start with no avail caused the batteries to drain. Pulled the boat out and took it to a buddy?s house to take a look at.

http://youtu.be/o7izbk_3B5o

In the next clip, I hear what I believe is an electrical or ignition failure. What do you all think it is?

http://youtu.be/iR2ctR4Mh0E

I examined all the fuel lines and cut about 0.5 inch off of most connection points since it looked a bit stretched from time. I took apart the fuel pump to see if there was any debris or punctures ? everything looked fine, diaphragm looks good. I had a difficult time reaching the screw on the bowl of the bottom carb so I ended up taking the carb off. After examination, it looks like the gaskets wasn?t seated well thus the slow leak. I corrected and put the back on. Charged up the battery, connected the muffs and primed the bulb. Fuel leak from the fuel pump was fixed. Bottom carb still had a small leak when priming but seemed to cease with the motor running.

Since we had the cowl off, I attempted to adjust the idle mixing screws. Not sure I could tell the difference of lean or rich, am I suppose to adjust the top carb first and then the bottom or should this be performed simultaneously? I couldn?t get the idle screw to move or maybe I was looking at the wrong screw. My buddy accidently turned what I believe is the ?eccentric screw? (see above video at 4 secs in the throttle plate touches the screw or roller) so we set it back according the throttle rod adjustment noted of the maintenance and tune up section of the manual. We were able to get it kicked over after a couple attempts so we headed back to the lake.

We were able to get it running at the lake but I think the idle mixing screws are not set correctly because I noticed a lot of smoke coming from the motor. Seems to idle better but something needs some more tweaking. It was getting late so we packed up and called it a day.

http://youtu.be/z3Jhbo7xvmo

The next day I tried taking the boat out again. I was hoping to get her running and adjust the idle mixing screws on the water with the cowl off but I didn?t get that far. She wouldn?t crank over so I?m back at square one.

I?m not a mechanic but I?m not afraid to pick up a screw driver and try to figure things out ? unfortunately, I think I know enough to be dangerous so I?m going have my brother in law take a look with me. He typically works on big block engines for his drag car and has worked on two stroke motorcycle motors before. He?s actually really brilliant and has been able to fix anything we?ve attempted but I?m sure the wealth of knowledge from the folks on this forum will help tremendously.

I?d like some help from the forum family on parts that I should look into replacing, what I should be adjusting and how. I apologize for the long winded explanation of events but I figure the more insight I provide the better advice you all will be able to reciprocate. I appreciate everyone?s time and help! I will update this thread as we work thru the details with pictures and audio in hopes it will help someone else in the future. Thanks again!!

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Force 120 - Multiple failures with audio/video - Open Analysis Please!

Quite a novel you wrote there, so I will take one section at a time and then edit.

The rattling you hear is common to Mercury lower units and your Force has the Mercury designed lower unit. I did notice though that you get it when going into gear also. You should not ease the control lever forward. Rather, you need to snap it crisply, far enough that the engine goes into gear--usually about 1/3 of its total travel but varies from engine to engine. Linkage is designed so that the engine itself will not accelerate until the lower unit has been put into gear. You should hear a firm but not too loud CLUNK if you are engaging gears correctly. These outboards use dog clutches and drive dogs on the gears--Your BIL will know what they are-- They are positive engagement devices and can not slip. rather they lock up. Thus, to avoud wear you move them into mesh quickly. It is possible that by adjusting the linkage you may be able to reduce the noise. Also, there usually is a disclaimer on the engine saying that if you adjust carb linkage, the cable must be adjusted also.

Failure to start can be caused by multiple problems. HOWEVER: Force engines use surface gap plugs and these plug do foul easily. Failure to start, hard starting, stalling after starting and failure to idle are all symptoms and usually the first sigh of fouled plugs. When I come across someone like you on the water, the first thing I do is give them a fresh set of plugs. That usually gets them going. SO: before you mess around with fuel and carbs, change the plugs.

These engines are not like car engines. They use a 50 to 1 gas to oil mix. Smoke is the name of the game--get used to it. Please do NOT mess with the carb low speed needles This is a FAST way to destroy the engine. Too lean a setting WILL melt pistons. See my sticky on synchronizing carbs and timing in FAQS.

In the cowl off video, the squeaking sound you hear is the bendix being thrown as the engine trys to fire. And, I forgot. You have an enrichment valve in place of a choke for cold starting. It is that brass and black plastic thing between the carbs. You have a push to choke ignition switch. Under cold starting conditions you must push in the key and hold it while turning to "choke" the engine. If it fails for any reason, the red button on top is manual override. You push that while someone else starts the engine.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Force 120 - Multiple failures with audio/video - Open Analysis Please!

Frank has most of it covered, as usual.

You need to find the correct starting procedure for your motor. They all act a little different.

This motor is old technology, with a few modern parts bolted onto it.

It will smoke.
Yours does not look that bad.
You should see what they did bad in the 60's, 70's, or even the 80's.

Some of the sounds I heard were unidentifiable.
The audio comes across pretty harsh on the video, so maybe that has something to do with it.

Don't be afraid to advance the throttle to get it started, just be prepared to back it down to 1500-1800 rpm after it starts.

Once running for 2-3 minutes, it should idle in neutral or in gear.
Idle in neutral should be around 8-900.
In gear, about 600-800 rpm.

Seems like the lower carb needs the float adjusted, possibly the needle and seat replaced, this will keep excess fuel from running out.

A properly tuned engine will not foul plugs, unless the operator floods it badly.
Even at that, you should be able to clear the engine and get it running most of the time.

I had an 89 35 hp, and a 95 70 hp that I ran for 5 and 9 years respectively, on the same plugs.

I would suggest you carry a fully charged spare battery until you get this sorted out.

Here is a recommended starting procedure for your motor:

There is no conventional choke on that motor.
There is a fuel enrichment valve, that releases fuel directly into the intake manifold.

Open fuel tank vent

Check the kill switch, place in "run" position

Squeeze fuel primer bulb till firm.

Advance the throttle 3/4 way (or more) , without putting it in gear. -- This is done by either pushing a button in the center of the controls, or pulling the shift handle toward the driver, or raising the fast idle lever, all depending on what control unit you have.

Activate the choke (fuel enrichment valve) by pushing in on the key. The valve is only open while the key is being pushed in.

Turn the key to start while continuing to hold the key in.

Release the key and choke when it starts.

3-5 seconds of "choke", is usually enough.

Be ready to pull the throttle back toward the idle/neutral position, when the engine starts and the revs increase.

Continue to pull the throttle back as the engine warms up.

You should not have to use the choke much, if at all, once the engine has warmed up.

Engine should start within 10 seconds of turning the key.