Force 70 cooling & starter issue

[andybid]

Firstly, thank god I found such a useful forum. Thanks all.

I have returned to my force 70 that has been laid up for a few years. When left I had taken the starter out as it needed a new spring. now I have two questions.

When turning the key, i just get a constant clicking from the engine and the starter turns slowly? any ideas.

Having got fed up of this i pull started, - amazingly after 3 years it started firing straight away and only took half dozen pulls! Q2, I cannot remember if you see water running out of this engine after cooling it? I have a pipe coming from the top of the engine above the spark plug bit (prob called the head - i not very technical) but nothing seems comes out.[I think this is the teel tale is it not as mentioned in the "can I add a te;ll tele to a force" thread]

Any help appreciated. My mission this year - learn this engine so I can look after it myself! thanks ....a (rather green) newbie

 

[andybid]

Re: Force 70 cooling & starter issue

UPDATE:
Cruised the forum some more;

I think that most of the water is expelled by the prop on this engine. Is that right?

The tell tale at the top of the engine may be bloked. I'll give that a blow out.

It is possible that i didn't have high enough water in the barrell. What is the height of the impellor? this way I could ensure it is below water when testing on land.

As for the starter.... still a bit lost....

thanks in advance

 

[john from md]

Re: Force 70 cooling & starter issue

The clicking from the solinoid is due to low voltage. It can be a bad battery, dirty connections, high resistance in the cables or a bad solinoid.

Water should be spraying out behind the leg where there are two exhaust relief holes. If you have a tell tale, you need to blow it out periodically as insects build nest in them. The water will not clear this out as the pressure is only about 1.5 pounds.

One way to see if your engine is cooling is to put your hand on the exhaust chest. This is next to the cylinders, is oblong in shape and has many bolts. If it feels cool to the touch, you are at least getting cooling water at idle. It does not guarantee that it is cooling well enough for WOT. Make sure you test your overtemp system by grounding the orange wire on the head with the key on. The buzzer under the dash should sound when you do this.

The water in the barrel needs to be as high as the anti cavitation plate.

John

 

[andybid]

Re: Force 70 cooling & starter issue

Thanks John.

I have cleaned connections and the battery is good. I am going to check a few things this afternoon to double check.

I have no buzzer!!! The wires terminate in the throttle housing. Those that are not used for the kill switch or the ignitiion just terrminate! i would love to know which wires are for the buzzer and what type of buzzer I can use.

One point iforgot is that with the key on, but not in the start, i am getting a small current flowing to the starter. I know this as when I groundedthe starter I get a small spark (Nothing like the full power spark if you see what i mean) and the starter turns very slowly.

I am lost with this one - it strted happening for no reason all of a sudden other day.

I put my hand on the cooling fins and on thecylinder bit the other day and it did not seem to be over hot. I am going over today so will have a good look. I got some muffs so will try them. I willl get a photo or vid as well cos I useless at explaining! Thanks for your time.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: Force 70 cooling & starter issue

Depends on the motor but the buzzer might be in the shifter.What year? Fill out the profile with info.
Take the starter apart.It's probably loaded with grit.Make sure the magnet is not loose. Pics will always help.J

 

[john from md]

Re: Force 70 cooling & starter issue

Is your ignition switch original? They will get corrosion build up inside and that will cause high resistance and stray voltage paths.

The same applies to the solinoid which is actually a big switch. If you jumper accross the big terminals of the solinoid, will the engine spin properly? If so, you have a bad solinoid and or bad ignition switch. If it does not spin properly, then you have either a weak battery, high resistance cables or grounds or a bad starter.

For the switch, you can try this for troubleshooting. With the battery disconnected, try flipping the switch rapidly between positions a few times. You can try spraying contact cleaner (available from an auto store) into the key slot while doing this. Then check to see if you are getting stray voltage and try a start.

BTW, if your battery is three years old or older, you should have it checked for capacity. Walmart, Sams Club and Pep Boys will do it for free.

Let us know what you find out.

 

[andybid]

Re: Force 70 cooling & starter issue

thanks guys. American shops sound great but i am in the uk but i know what you mean. Just picking up a socket set and heading to boat. Got mobile so will upload some pics in the next couple hours.

 

[andybid]

Re: Force 70 cooling & starter issue

Model no is 708E91B. Serial 016979. (as seen in pics)



anybody know what number this is for on the leg? told you I am a bit green!


I cant pull start it at all now. Won't fire.

I grounded the orange over heat wire at the terminal and no buzzer.

I have noticed that the 'i' trminal on the ignition block wire is not connectedto anything! I don't know if it should be or just that i not noticed before.



I have connected the starter direct to current. It won't spin at speed. Slowly turns if i start it off.



Album of boat pics. (Photobucket)
OR
Slideshow of all images. (Photobucket)

I need help to get it running first by pull starting. then I can move onto the water and starter issue.

so help... I need to know what to check and how i can tell if the voltage is reaching the right bits to fire. I have a multimeter but no idea which terminals to check to see if the current is flowing ok to actually fire.

can someone spare a bit of time to take me through this. I am happy to post pics or vids as I go along.
thanks

 

[john from md]

Re: Force 70 cooling & starter issue

If you are capable, I suggest pulling the starter apart and cleaning the carbon and crud that has built up. You can also clean up the commutator with crocus cloth and inspect the brushes to see if they are worn down or not. Most times you can get some additional life out of a starte that way.

John

 

[andybid]

Re: Force 70 cooling & starter issue

Love to have a crack at thart. I not afraid of doing these things.

Anyone got a how to guide or can give me steps on how to do this.

Pics have been put on my edited post above now...

Thanks john

 

[andybid]

Re: Force 70 cooling & starter issue

gonna go through the "engine wont start" FAQ's thread http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=158071

let you know what happens tomorrow. I will update while at workon it via mobile ..

ps. the manual i got comin is.....

Author: Lahue, Kalton C.
Title: Chrysler/Force : outboard shop manual : 3.5-140HP,
1966-1985 / by Kalton C. Lahue ;
Sydnie A. Wauson, editor.
Edition: 1 st ed.
Publisher Arleta, Calif. : Clymer Publications, c1985.
Bib Id 251665
ISBN 0892874023

Any good????

 

[john from md]

Re: Force 70 cooling & starter issue

The Clymer manual is the next best manual to OEM.

It can't hurt to go through the FAQ, you might find other things as well.

On page 257 of the Clymer manual, they have a great tear down sketch of the starter. It also gives you brush replacement procedures.

I'd advise not taking the Bendix apart if it is working and don't spray any oil in it either. If you take it apart, you will have to mark the number of threads that the nut is turned down to as it is critical for engaging the flywheel. Bendix gears don't like oil as it will cause them to slip.

Let me know if you need more help,

John

 

[andybid]

Re: Force 70 cooling & starter issue

The reason I took the starter out in the first place was that irt was spinning too high and disengaging, therefore not spinning with the starter. The spring is knackered so I will have to get a new one and redo it at some stage. If, for now, I can get the engine reliable on a pull, I would like to have a day on the river with my lady. Thanks for info on manual. Let you know if I get it firing tomorrow.

 

[john from md]

Re: Force 70 cooling & starter issue

There is a guy who sells Bendix's on ebay for about $30 or so. I bought one about two years ago and it is still going strong.

John

 

[andybid]

Re: Force 70 cooling & starter issue

confused!
as the small cog is slipping, do i take it from your comment that i need more than a spring john? by bendix, does that refer to the cog or what

 

[john from md]

Re: Force 70 cooling & starter issue

The starter and Bendix gear are separate units. If the starter is spinning fine but the Bendix is slipping, all you need is a Bendix. They are sold on ebay for @$ 30. The Bendix unit is the gear assembly that engages the flywheel. It is easy to replace by just removing the starter and then removing the nut that holds the Bendix on. Replace the Bendix, locktite the nut, install the starter and go!

John

 

[andybid]

Re: Force 70 cooling & starter issue

makes perferct sense. thanks for explaining so clearly. as I said that was the original problem (slipping gbendix) but now starter won't turn or does slowly. I will strip it and have a look at that over next week.

As for engine,as mentioned above after it firing up so nice by pull strting, two days later I have nothiing Not a hint of a vroom, cough or splutter. Im gonnna check a few things from various rthreads for non starters and will update when done. My stray voltage seems to have stopped though! unfortunately so has the engine.

thanks for taking me through it. I will post with what tried when tried it

..never will I admit defeat.!!!
--as my old man said -(watching me on the 100th pull start of the day) -"your'e a blimin optimist"

 

[john from md]

Re: Force 70 cooling & starter issue

I give you a lot of credit pull starting that three cylinder. I have an '85 85hp engine and tried once to pull start it. I was lucky I could get the rope to move! And my engine is in top tune and starts by just bumping the key.

I still carry the pull rope but I also read the tea leaves and buy towing insurance every year. I haven't used it yet but, when I am way out on the Chesapeak Bay, I don't want to have to worry about swmming home if the ancient engine gives up the ghost.

I have an OEM manual from Chrysler for early 70hp engines. Let me know if you need any info from it. The Seloc and Clymer manuals cover so many engines they just gloss over most if it. The OEM manuals were for specific engines and go into more detail.

Regards,

John

 

[andybid]

Re: Force 70 cooling & starter issue

thanks. Bear that in mind. Now isn't it silly o clock in the morning where you are. Get some sleep. ↲↲Ps. Actually pulls quite easy. Ah. Thats just made me think compression. No it was as easy other day when fired like a dream. See. Optimist.

 

[andybid]

Re: Force 70 cooling & starter issue

Been to boat.
Started!! whey hey!!!!

Although I did spay some maitainance spray into the carb which got it to fire, so I did it again, and a third time, then it started to splutter and finally go..

but questions.....


what is this...(the box with the black button on?) It's a video...



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Now I had a look at the spark plugs, ok they were black eith oil and dirt (has been sittin around since 2007!) but they have no bit at the end of the plug for the spark to gap like a car does? should they?

heres a pic.


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And Finally, got her running, My g/f took this vid just as I pull started it..

Question is, Wheres the water sposed to fly out!!!! (I know the vents above the prop right?)


Me thinks I got a problem???




Thanks for sticking with me!