Force 85 Gear problem

[Fraziermotorsports]

1985 force 85.

Will not engage reverse. Loud clacking and no movement. I engaged the gear quickly, slowly, you name it- I tried it. (I know to engage quickly to protect the gears)

Put it in forward- lots of clacking, but I got positive engagement- run great going forward, no noise after initial engagement.

I took it home- replaced the lower unit lube (no water, no big gear chunks, small fine metal particles which looked normal for a gearset to me, oil was dirty)

Had the gear cables adjusted- They were fine- no adjustment needed per local boat shop.

Boat shop says it "might be" cable stretch or a worn controller, or at worst--lower unit gears.

I am praying for a cable or controller issue.

I was thinking of taking it to the lake and trying to manually engage reverse at the end of the cable/motor.

Anybody have any Ideas? Im I on the right path?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Force 85 Gear problem

First, find another local boat shop that knows Force engines.

Second, You need to check a couple of areas and then possibly align the shift rod.

Check that the throttle cable quick-connect fitting has the center spring pulled out about 1/4 inch in neutral. This allows the lower unit to shift before the engine speeds up in RPM. Incorrectly adjusted and the lower unit will clatter a bit during engagement.

Be certain that the grooves in the control cables are set into the mounting blocks correctly; there is a stamped pin or notch that engages the grooves and keeps the cables from slipping.

Now: Under the bottom carb you will see a threaded rod held with two self locking nuts. These nuts adjust the upper shift rod so that equal throw is delivered to both forward and reverse. Before adjusting these nuts, check the lower shift rod. You will see it as it exits the midleg casting just below the engine clamps. Set the control handle to neutral and mark the shift rod. Now set it to forward and reverse and mark each position on the shift rod. The distance should be equal from neutral to each position. If not equal, then adjust the two lock nuts under the carb. Easy does it. A little adjustment goes a long way. Do about 1/2 turn at a time.

If all this does not help, then remove the control box and check for wear on the shift cable pivot pin and the actuating shift lever. This should be a rare occurence though.

 

[Faztbullet]

Re: Force 85 Gear problem

If the cables and control box check out correctly,it is usually a worn out shifter yoke in lower unit. Its made of a hard aluminum and wears out not giving enough throw either direction. I have fixed many customers units with this $15.00 part

 

[Fraziermotorsports]

Re: Force 85 Gear problem

Thanks for the quick replies-- you guys are the best. I am going to check the above this weekend-- And i'll get back to you.

Thanks for your help-

Mike

 

[Fraziermotorsports]

Re: Force 85 Gear problem

Here is the latest--

I went step by step what Frank said above.

I couldn't find a spring on the quick connect cable-- I looked and looked. There is a spring inside the snap connector, but nothing to measure.

Anyway, I checked the adjustment of the lower shift rod- it was way out. Here is whats weird-- it was adjusted to push deeper into reverse, and less on forward. What I don't get, my problem was the boat wouldn't engage reverse, yet it was adjusted more that way. (Could it go too far?)

I centered it up per your instructions- and it locks positively into forward and reverse by hand, and neutral is a free spinner with no clicks.

I am going to toss it on the water Sunday--wish me luck!!

Thanks for the help, i'll keep you posted.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Force 85 Gear problem

That is what I meant by center spring. You can not see the spring, but the center of the quick-connect fitting where the cable screws into can pull out quite a bit. Newer Force engines had a solid quick-connect, the ones I saw were brass, and relied upon compliance in the cables. Older Force and Chrysler engines had the more expensive stainless quick-connect and used this to prevent the engine from speeding up until the gears had positively engaged. As I said, in neutral the center should be pulled out about 1/4 inch--give or take a bit. As your buddy activates the control handle, you should see the center retract as the engine goes into gear. Once fully retracted, then the throttles will begin to open.

Nice little quality feature that Chrysler and early Force engines had.

Mercury decided that it was not necessary and eliminated it--most likely for cost reasons. Past 1994, Force engines used mercury control cables and ends, again, without this feature.

 

[Fraziermotorsports]

Re: Force 85 Gear problem

Update!!!

Adjusted per Frank-- cleaned the fuel filter, stuffed in new plugs.
Ran it on Sunday-- Flawless. Runs, shifts like a brand new boat.

Thanks to all of you guys for the help. You guys are the best.

My next project/concern is the cooling system. Should I pull the thermostat and check/replace? I have know clue as to the maintenance history on this motor. I was wondering about the water pump also.
My goal is to service this thing and try to keep from having an avoidable failure.

Thanks again--

Look at fish, here I come!!!

 

[john from md]

Re: Force 85 Gear problem

Thermostats are not usually a problem with these engines so I would suggest leaving it alone at present.

You should change the lower oil and the water pump at the very least. If the pump housing is pitted on the inside, I would buy a whole kit. IF it is in good shape, just buy the impeller and gaskets. You can usually find both on fleabay.

If the lower oil is milky at all, I would replace the oil and check it every time for a while. You can check it for water by just pulling the drain plug after it has sat for a few days. Water will come out before the oil if any migrated into the lower. Of course the oil will start to turn milky too if water is getting in.
DON'T loosen the fill or vent plugs when doing this or you will wind up with oil all over the ground.

Enjoy,

John