Force stuck in gear - won't start

[franklina]

I'm hoping you guys can help!<br /><br />I have a 1990 Force '90 that has a rebuilt Lower Unit. It seems to shift OK.<br /><br />A week ago, the engine would not start although the choke engaged and I heard clicking.<br /><br />The mechanic told me that the motor was "in gear"<br />and that it would not start. He fixed it by somehow <br />starting the engine even though it was in gear and <br />started moving forward<br /><br />He told me not to stop the engine while it was in gear, but<br />if it happened again, I should disengage the throttle cables at the engine<br />and move the flywheel to try to get it into neutral. <br /><br />Well it happened again ( even though I thought I being careful)<br />and although I tried rocking the flywheel in both directions<br />( I can see the prop turn) while tring to shift, it won't get into neutral<br /><br />Does anyone have some better advice? <br /><br />I read somewhere here that there is a wire I can disconnect.<br />("interlock switch") so I can start the motor and then try to shift.

 

[scotiany]

Re: Force stuck in gear - won't start

Turning your flywheel counterclockwise is a big no no. Such action may cause damage to the impeller vanes-Seloc manual. You may have a defective or misadjusted neutral interlock switch or wiring from the starter solenoid. That's what I'd look at first. I'd remove LU and check impeller also.

 

[eurolarva]

Re: Force stuck in gear - won't start

If you need to start this motor in order to get it in neutral there is a thing called a neutral interlock switch. I am not sure where it is on a force but if you find the switch you can have someone insert a screwdriver until you hear it click. Then you can start your motor. The switch is probably on the starboard side of the motor connected to the shift cable. Be careful doing this. The neutral interlock switch is designed so you cant start your motor in gear or at high rpm. When you get it in neutral you will probably have to replace the impeller as scotiany says. Another warning is if your throttle is at high rpm and in forward gear once it starts it is going to go fast so use extreame caution when doing this. Try and get your throttle to its lowest setting.

 

[franklina]

Re: Force stuck in gear - won't start

First off, thanks for the responses! esp. about the counterclockwise rotations<br /><br />But, I can't believe that anytime you stop in gear, you need to remove the LU.<br /><br />There must be some way to get it into neutral preferably without starting the motor. This is basically a new LU so nothing is frozen etc. <br /><br />How many clockwise revolutions of the flywheel would it take? I rotated it 2 or 3 ( it's a pain to turn)<br /><br />Also, My mechanic started it and when it moved forward was somehow able to kill the engine.<br /><br />Once again, thanks for the replies.

 

[scotiany]

Re: Force stuck in gear - won't start

Ya know, having the right manual will go a long ways towards diagnosing your problem. You'll also have the added benefit of not having a mechanic suck money out of your pocket. I've got the Seloc, Glenn's, Chilton, official Chrysler and Clymer manuals for my motor. My preference is the Seloc manual.It was one of the best investments I made.

 

[eurolarva]

Re: Force stuck in gear - won't start

Here is the deal about the impeller in the lower unit. The impeller has to be basically squeezed into the water pump and the vanes are bent in order to do this. They have a nautral bend from sitting in your motor and by turning the flywheel counterclockwise you are forcing those vanes to try and bend in a direction they are not used to. This can cause the vanes to become weakened like taking a piece of aluminum and bending it back and forth. I realize you only turned it a couple of times but if you damage that impeller you could be looking at a fried motor.<br /><br />You need to find a different mechanic. There is no such thing as a motor that will get stuck in forward with the motor not running unless something is mechanically wrong. My guess it that the new lower unit is not compatible with your motor or it is installed incorrectly. Either way the lower unit should be taken off by someone who knows your motor and find out why this is happening.

 

[franklina]

Re: Force stuck in gear - won't start

Thanks Eurolarva, just so I understand:<br />If the motor is stopped in gear, I should be able to shift into neutral and restart it ( without<br />any effort)<br /><br />If so, this is good to know since my mechanic<br />probably installed the LU incorrectly and he's probably feeding me "%^&$". <br /><br />The funny thing is that the motor and shifting ran fine and he does seem to be able to correct it, without taking off the LU. Is there any trick to this?<br /><br />Also BTW, Is there anyway to tell if the impeller was damaged?<br /><br />Once again, <br />Thanks for your expertise.

 

[eurolarva]

Re: Force stuck in gear - won't start

Your impeller is probably fine. And no there is no way to tell by looking at it if it is okay. If you shop around you can buy one for about 15 bucks. All outboards have the ability to shift from forward to neutral to reverse with the motor not running. It is a manual shifting devise in the lower unit that moves the forward and reverse gears into a clutch and a moving pinion gear. If the clutch is in the middle it is not in contact with either gear so it is in neutral. The reason you can not start it in forward or reverse is because there is a switch called a neutral interlock switch that will only work when the shifter is in neutral. When this switch is engaged it will allow electricity to go to your starter solenoid so the starter will work. <br /><br />I have read a lot of posts about people having problems getting force lower units back on the motors correctly. Usually it is they can not shift out of forward or reverse. I am thinking that if you bought a rebuilt lower unit it is not compatiable with your motor. Some years force built many models of say a 85 HP motor and some of the parts are not compatable with different models of the same year.<br /><br />Hope this clears some things up

 

[scotiany]

Re: Force stuck in gear - won't start

The way I check my impeller is to see if I can hold my hand on the top of the powerhead and not get burned or even uncomfortable. And of course water spitting out the back. It works for me anyways. The impeller is most important at idle and low speed.

 

[Scaaty]

Re: Force stuck in gear - won't start

Originally posted by eurolarva:<br /> If the clutch is in the middle it is not in contact with either gear so it is in neutral. <br />

There is no such thing as a clutch in that L/U. Its a sliding gear with dogs. And they can sometimes be a witch to pull out of gear with a dead motor. The micro switch for the in gear interlock is on the shift cable on the side of the block.....replace it and align it right. NEVER bypass it or start in gear

 

[eurolarva]

Re: Force stuck in gear - won't start

Item 50 in this diagram calls it a clutch. Force 90hp lower unit <br />Both manuals I have call it a clutch. I dont know where the term dog came from but it dont seem to jive with the parts manuals.

 

[franklina]

Re: Force stuck in gear - won't start

Thanks for all the responses.<br /><br />Eurolarva, I think that this is probably the case.<br />The LU was not fully compatible but the mechanic got it on anyway.<br /><br />It shifts fine when the motor is running, but <br />somehow it gets stuck in gear when stopping.<br />(I could've sworn I was in neutral when I killed the motor)<br /><br />Anyway, the shift box is old (1990) and<br />I'm afraid to put pressure on it since it's<br />about $200 to replace. ( would a new box solve this, anyway?)<br /><br />I'm wondering what to do? I can't take off the LU every time it gets stuck and I can't return the LU ( it's been on since May)<br /><br />So I'm back to the orig question: Any trick to get this into neutral? <br /><br />BTW, Is my mechanic responsible for fixing this?<br /><br />Thanks

 

[eurolarva]

Re: Force stuck in gear - won't start

Find your neutral interlock switch. If you cant find it find the starter solenoid. Attached to the starter solenoid is a thin wire. follow this wire back and it should go to the neutral interlock switch. The switch has a small button type switch that rocks on some kind of linkage. If your motor kills in gear and you need to restart it you can find some way to jury rig this switch so the button is pushed you can start your motor in gear. This interlock switch is a safety devise so I dont recommend doing this except in emergencies. Make sure your throttle is at a low setting and jury rig the switch and use the key to start.