Fuel Pump Qustion

[mabryant]

I have a 1995 Force 120 . I finally got it in the water for the 2nd time this weekend. It runs good but I still had the
issue with bottom carb leaking out of the carb. Anyways I have the kits to rebuild them. I also just rebuilt
the fuel pump. I noticed the gasket between the pump and the block was not there. No fuel leaks from pump.
I know there is suppose to be a gasket there and the new kit has one. What kind of issues would that cause
with no gasket in that place ? Beside the pump leaking which it isn't.

Thanks

 

[RCO]

The gasket seals the air pulse port to the pump. Depending on how well it sealed without the gasket it could cause the pump not to function, loss of crankcase compression, hard starting and lean running on that cylinder.

 

[mabryant]

Thanks, I was wondering because it has been hard to start and I thought it was running just a little bit on the lean side. But I
wasn't thinking that was the issue.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Running lean, backfiring, piston failure and more.

Where's the carb leaking fuel?

 

[mabryant]

@jerryjerry the lower carb is leaking out the front of the carb itself. The top one isn't leaking at all. I can see it leaking like a drip.
I have new kits for both carbs but haven't had time to rebuild. I have sprayed the hell out of them trying to clean them out. Both carbs
rebuilt 2 years ago I was told but set up for over a year. I have spent a lot of time cleaning out old fuel and fixing different things.
A local guy wants $425 to rebuild them so I will have to watch videos and read a lot and try to do it myself.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Rebuilds easy.
​The fuel coming from the front? that could be the reeds are broken??
When you pull the carbs, inspect the reeds.

 

[Jiggz]

@jerryjerry the lower carb is leaking out the front of the carb itself. The top one isn't leaking at all. I can see it leaking like a drip.
I have new kits for both carbs but haven't had time to rebuild. I have sprayed the hell out of them trying to clean them out. Both carbs
rebuilt 2 years ago I was told but set up for over a year. I have spent a lot of time cleaning out old fuel and fixing different things.
A local guy wants $425 to rebuild them so I will have to watch videos and read a lot and try to do it myself.

This could be a case of broken reeds rather than dirty or misaligned carb. When you take down the lower carb for cleaning take the extra step to dismount the intake adapter and the Reed's V-block for inspection.

 

[mabryant]

I have to confess I am a novice on most of the things concerning the carbs. Two of you mention the "reeds". What are the reeds,
what should I look for ? If reeds are broken will it be something that is noticeable to a novice like myself ? And how much trouble
and cost to replace ? I did notice after rebuilding the fuel pump the motor started easier and even sounded a bit better. So I do
believe that was an issue I was possibly having since the fuel originally was nasty and very old. I really appreciate you guys
responding. This site although I have been following for along time and just started posting has really helped me out
a lot.

 

[Nordin]

The reeds are metal pedals that act like a check valve.
It allow the fuel to get into the crankcase when the piston is going up to compression as it makes an underpressure in the case.
If one or more are broken the fuel will spitt out through the carb when the piston is going downwards making an overpressure in the crankcase

They are mounted in v-blocks in the intake manifold just behind the carbs.
If you look in to the intake manifold when the carbs are off you will see them.

 

[mabryant]

Thanks Nordin ! I've been reading a bit about reed valves. Everything I have read talks about a bad reed will cause it to spit out gas
through the carb. Mine doesn't actually spit fuel out the front of the carb. It just drips and will even do that when the motor is not
running and is in full tilt up position. I was thinking was seat problem. Does that still sound like a possible reed valve problem ?
I am going to inspect them anyways just for good measure.

 

[Jiggz]

When engine is tilted all the way up, it is normal to see fuel overflow off the carbs even when shut down. Otherwise, if the engine is in full upright position and running, there should not be fuel flowing out of the carbs except for few mist caused by blowback from the reeds, which is normal and happens just before the reeds closes. If the seats or floats are misaligned, the overflow should be coming out of the small overflow vent of the carbs but not on the front.

 

[mabryant]

Hm, ok ..... I took off both carbs and removed the lower reeds since that was the carb that is leaking.
I looked through the reeds to see if I could see any light and was not able to. However I took a couple of pics
of the reeds and the back of that carb I will post and see if anyone sees anything. I really have no idea what I am
looking at or for concerning the reeds. To me the valves look good though, not damaged.

 

[mabryant]

I took these pics after I removed the bottom carb and reeds

 

[NEKFORCE]

I can tell you this, I was given a boat that the guy cooked the motor on that cyl , i rebuilt the motor, but saw no reason for the lean condition, after the rebuild, i found that the pump was malfunctioning, I believe the gaskets and seals dry out on these pumps and suck air, thus leaning out that cyl and causing a lean condition failure.

 

[Jiggz]

The reeds looks good. So you need to check on the carb and pinpoint exactly where it is leaking from. There is a small vent hole on the side of the carb designed to leak off excess fuel if the float malfunctions. If there is fuel leaking from this small vent as well as on the front it's most likely a float, inlet valve or seat problem. Or it could be that the vent hole was covered.

 

[Nordin]

Just as Jiggz says, check vent hole.

Two stroker with reed valves always backblow some fuel as the reeds close as Jiggz mentions.

In my opinion from reading your issue I think it is acting pretty normal.
If it drips from carb when tilted up ....just normal.

Older Chrysler/Force engines had an air intake silencer that had a hose in the bottom part that lead the fuel back to crankcase.

BTW the reeds look really good, take a close look at the pedals for cracks.
Broken reed pedals are not so uncomman on later Force engine when Mercury start to put their stuff on them.
Older Chrysler/Force prio 1995 did not break the pedals as much as later.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Yup they look good.
​Figure out where it's coming from??

 

[NEKFORCE]

The reeds looks good. So you need to check on the carb and pinpoint exactly where it is leaking from. There is a small vent hole on the side of the carb designed to leak off excess fuel if the float malfunctions. If there is fuel leaking from this small vent as well as on the front it's most likely a float, inlet valve or seat problem. Or it could be that the vent hole was covered.

yeah it does sound like a stuck float.....