Gasoline Shortage

D

DJ

Guest
This gasoline shortage (Phoenix) is unbelievable.<br /><br />There is one station open (out of over twenty), within a 5 mile radius of me today. There is a line at least a 1/2 mile long to get fuel, at that station.<br /><br />Last week unleaded reg. was $1.47, today it's averaging $1.89. Prices are reported as high as $3.97/premium. CASH ONLY! What thieves.<br /><br />Our Gov is saying at least two weeks before any relief, which would be the pipeline reopening.<br /><br />The problem is that the fuel used here (Phoenix Blend) is special and the suppliers can't get it to the stations. There is plenty of fuel-outstate.<br /><br />Of course the EPA won't back off on the air reg's that would ease the crisis.<br /><br />What a mess.
 

ratltrap

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
May 5, 2002
Messages
81
Re: Gasoline Shortage

Here in N.C. Premium-$1.859 :mad: <br /> Mid-$1.759 :mad: <br /> Low-$1.659 :mad: <br /><br />Will we ever get enough people elected to govt.<br />to make real changes needed in this country?<br />-This is the greatest country,but there are a few<br />that do need to be made. :)
 

Jack Shellac

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Messages
1,661
Re: Gasoline Shortage

I've read one article that says the recent jump in gas prices is due to the government refilling the Strategic Oil Reserve on a priority basis, regardless of price paid. Don't know if this is the sole reason, though. Read today that the power outage is likely to cause a bump too, since some refinerys went off line. Personally, I've always thought that gas prices were set on whatever the public will stand for and it only goes down when we stop buying and inventories build up. Who knows? Paid $1.53 for regular here today.
 

miloman

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Nov 3, 2002
Messages
1,181
Re: Gasoline Shortage

sorry to say my friends I think i have you all beat here in toronto the lines at most gas stations over the weekend were 1-2 miles in most places gas today was 74C per litre and I bought tonight at 67C per litre tonight at 9 it goes up to 81c litre that puts it at over 3 almost 4 per gallon it is a total rip and im getting sick of it if i ran my personal affairs like this id be in jail
 

Ralph 123

Captain
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Jun 24, 2003
Messages
3,983
Re: Gasoline Shortage

Makes me feel good that here in MA we are still around $1.55
 
D

DJ

Guest
Re: Gasoline Shortage

This one, shortage, is a local issue.<br /><br />The pipeline that burst supplies 30% of the Phoenix fuel.<br /><br />The real problem is that people panicked, fueled by the idiot media, and fuel useage rates climbed 200% in three days.<br /><br />Idiots!
 

Scoop

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Jul 19, 2002
Messages
1,158
Re: Gasoline Shortage

That reminds me of the oil crisis in the 70s. Aroudn here we had lines and people panicking after the world trade center bombing. Some companies were selling gas for $2.50/gal. The state got after them and told them to give the money back or face charges. <br /><br />Good luck Djohns. I hope it gets fixed soon.
 

sloopy

Commander
Joined
Jul 12, 2002
Messages
2,999
Re: Gasoline Shortage

wow it is 1.60 here! <br /><br />How long will it be before we have synthetic gasoline? then we could make it cheap? but bush put all the money that could be used for that toward that hydrogen crap.
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
45,907
Re: Gasoline Shortage

Hmmm. Last time I checked gasoline cost US consumers a smaller fraction of their income than any country in the world.<br /><br />Try $4-$5 per gallon in countries where the average income is around $10K per year.<br /><br />I think we are a bit spoiled.
 

aspeck

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
May 29, 2003
Messages
19,254
Re: Gasoline Shortage

In Ghana gas is now $2.50 per gallon. The current Government got elected with a campaign of trying to get the average income to $1,000 per year! A bit different than here in the US. Yes, I like low prices (paid $1.49 for reg this morning) and I don't think we should pay higher prices just because someone else does, but we can still be grateful for what we have, while at the same time trying to make it even better.
 

lakeman1999

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Apr 20, 2003
Messages
550
Re: Gasoline Shortage

Hey fellows, you are comparing apples to horse hocky, it is easy for the liberals to tell us how well off we are with the price of fuel, but there is no comparison. And ya'll are probably driving expeditions, or cherokees. :D :D
 
D

DJ

Guest
Re: Gasoline Shortage

Got in line this AM at 03:30. Waited about 1 1/2 hours. Filled up and went home. I was sweating it out-very low. Paid $2.05/gal. up from $1.47 a week ago. <br /><br />Some stations are charging upwards of $3.50/- CASH ONLY. You can figure out whats going on there. (report a sale price of $2.00 and pocket the $1.50-CASH). There will be no consequences, AZ has no price gouging laws.<br /><br />I think this issue is two part.<br /><br />1. The pipeline that broke carries 30% of our special "Phoenix Blend" fuel. A 30% reduction doesn't add up to 90% of the stations being closed. HMMM! <br /><br />2. The pipeline is fixed, yet the company that owns it doesn't want to turn it on yet. There is alot of finger pointing going on.<br /><br />One thing that frosts me is that there is PLENTY of non "special" fuel around.<br /><br />Our Gov. won't even consider petitioning the EPA to allow us to use it until this mess is striaghtened out. She is beholding to her "greenie" friends.
 

aspeck

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
May 29, 2003
Messages
19,254
Re: Gasoline Shortage

djohns, if I was living in the Phoenix area I'd be frosted too! The numbers don't add up.<br /><br />lakeman, I didn't mean to suggest that it wasn't a problem and there shouldn't be a solution found, but simple case of supply and demand. Local stations can do it and get away with it and people are waiting in line to get shafted. Just pointing out that even in the "bad times" we are better off than most and we have so much to be grateful for.
 

Ralph 123

Captain
Joined
Jun 24, 2003
Messages
3,983
Re: Gasoline Shortage

JB, et al, it is an apples and oranges comparison. Most of the rest of the world is very urban - there is no need (and no room) for cars. They have excellent public transportation and people in general live near where they work. <br /><br />In the undeveloped world it is more of a distribution costs issue - no such thing as a cheap efficient system like we have. So petrol is expensive (few people have autos anyway)
 

SoulWinner

Commander
Joined
Apr 16, 2002
Messages
2,423
Re: Gasoline Shortage

It's all political IMHO. Like when there is a problem in the middle east, gas prices jump immediately. They are supposed to indexed to the price per barrel of light sweet crude, but if you watch the prices carefully, they don't move together. The price at the pump jumps before the price per barrel of unrefined, then the price for unrefined drops and the price at the pump very slowly follows suite. I think that there must be some connection betwen the petrolium companies, futures traders, and the government enforcement of the UCC. I think this, not because I am some kind of conspiracy nut-case, but because if you pay attention to the way fuel is priced at patrolium company franchised gas stations, the price of gas is clearly not tightly indexed to the cost per barrel of crude oil. That seems like an unfair business practice under the Uniform Commercial Code and unlawful for interstate commerce. Since fuel is heavily ferderally regulated to the point of shear stupidity as far as fuel additives and octane and soforth, it would stand to reason that the fed could do something keep shortages from occuring, just as they can for electricity; as well as keep the petrolium companies from manipulating the price the way they currently do. But, alas, petrolium companies are like banks, they never loose. They make the rules and set everything up so that they can manipulate everything to their advantage. Sure it sucks, but on the bright side, even with all the money they spend on advertising and buying politicians, we still have the cheapest gas of any country worth living in :D
 

RatFish

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 29, 2003
Messages
647
Re: Gasoline Shortage

South Jersey, local gas station, $1.41 for regular unleaded today. It's usually cheaper in this area than the national average. But then again, I could spit in any direction and hit a refinery! I guess transportation costs are cheaper.
 

plywoody

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 11, 2002
Messages
685
Re: Gasoline Shortage

One reason these countries with high gas prices (all of Europe, for example) have much better public transportation systems is of course most of that high price of gas is in the form of taxes, much of which goes to fund the transportation systems of those countries. They pay the same for crude as we do (or at least a comparable price) It is all a matter of priorities. If we ever really wanted to be energy self reliant, we could adopt a similar strategy. Nothing like $5 a gallon gas to reduce usage. (Note: I like my SUV just as much as the next person, and am not advocating this--just commenting that it is a potential solution)<br /><br />There was new standards passed for the Office of pipeline safety in 2002, in response to several accidents, one of which I witnessed as I happened to be in Bellingham Wa when a gas pipeline burst and exploded. Killed three kids, and completely destroyed a pretty little salmon spawning stream. I'll never forget an interview given by the fire chief, where he said "We've never before had to chase a fire down a stream, and didn't know how to do it!"<br /><br />It came out that the OPS more or less rubber stamped compliance reports from the owner of the pipelines, and apparently that was common practice. No longer, with the new laws.<br /><br />Gas prices are set by supply and demand. As prices fall, people use more and inventories fall. As prices rise, people use less and inventories climb. When there is a disruption in supply, as in this case, prices rise quickly. In normal cases, usage might not change a great deal, maybe only plus or minus 2-3% but it is enough to matter. Some may not alter their consumption at all, but enough do to make that difference. In this case, usage must be reduced-there is no other option for the time being, at least.<br /><br />The price has next to nothing to do with the price of crude, even though they all blame the price of crude for the prices. Of course, if crude goes high they may reduce hours at refineries to keep inventory in line at times and prices up, but it is all a part of the supply and demand analysis that oil companies make.<br /><br />And a 30 % reduction in the supply of a major market would result in a huge disruption of services. No matter what percentage of stations are open, you can bet that all told they are pumping that 70% as fast as they can.<br /><br />And why should they abandon environmental regulations at the first sign of a problem? Your inconvenience at the gas pump is a small price to pay for everyone else being able to breathe.<br /><br />That you can get gas is an improvement from the gas lines of the 70's. In northwest Washington State at the time, for example, stations often would limit sales to "regular customers" which of course meant their friends. If you were friends with the right people-no problem-If not, too bad, so sad.
 
D

DJ

Guest
Re: Gasoline Shortage

Plywoody,<br /><br />The government gave the pipeline company the go ahead to turn it back on at 80% of capacity, last week. I think they (government) may know something about the laws they wrote.<br /><br />The tank farms here are full. The gas companies have been woefully inept at getting the fuel to the stations. Some of that unwillingness to do so is being investigated.<br /><br />The fuel that is readily availble is the " Southern California Blend". I think that California's fuel is good enough for the Phoenix metro area, until full capacity is restored, in a month or two. <br /><br />Phoenix' air quality problems have nothing to do with cars. We had a dust storm blow through here last night that would choke a horse. Not to mention that we have an airport, in the middle of the city that sees over 300 flights out of here each day. Guess what, ONE 737 on take off puts out more pollutants than 1000 cars driving 1000 miles. Multiply that by 300!<br />In addition, we have some of the oldest vehicles in the country here. NO RUST!<br /><br />There are people here who are truly suffering. Think about an A/C outfit that operates 30 trucks and can't get fuel to get to peoples homes that have no A/C in 110 degreee heat. The people who NEED services can't get them and small businesses are suffering. Some on the edge may not make it.<br />That is a PROBLEM. <br /><br />No whining, I'll get through just fine. We'll cut back and wait it out. If I have to, I can drive 50 miles and get all the fuel I want. However, that seems a bit wasteful to me.<br /><br />You are correct, crude price has absolutely nothing to do with this. It WAS an issue of supply and demand. Yet, one can't stop thinking that a rat is in the works somewhere. Station owners/distributors know there are no price gouging laws here and I think they see/saw an opportunity.<br /><br />The US will be slow if ever, to adopt mass transit in a city like Phoenix. This city is now close to 5 million people (fifth largest in the US) and is almost 60 miles wide. If it isn't here now, it likely never will be.
 

ob

Admiral
Joined
Aug 16, 2002
Messages
6,992
Re: Gasoline Shortage

Djohns,That truly is a huge can of worms.Hope you Arizonans get some relief soon from this.As for the stations that are currently charging the overly inflated prices,when this thing blows over,I'd put them on my future "don't buy gas from" list.They should truly be ashamed.
 
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