Got a 77 Bayliner Mutiny with some rot issues, HELP

[77mutiny]

Hey everyone, i'm new to the forums but have been using iboats for a long time, actually bought this boat off of a listing here.
So what i have is a 1977 bayliner mutiny runabout with an 89 johnson 90hp outboard on it. I got this boat dirt cheap and i'm looking to get a few good years out of it before i upgrade to something better. I realize some of these old bayliners haven't the best craftsmanship, but it's in decent shape for its age. So the hull is solid with no major dings in the fiberglass, and the floor is in excellent shape with no soft spots, there's a bit of dry rot in the transom, but the motor is support by a bracket rather than mounted to the transom directly, and i plan on cleaning out the bad wood and replacing at some point during the winter.
But when i was cleaning it out today i noticed some more rot in the bow below the dash. There's about 8 inches of space between the top of the boat where the wiring for lights runs and the eye's bolt and where the lower fiberglass starts, i'm not even sure what this is called? Anyhow the rot is located on the wall from the boat floor to this "area."
Not being too familiar with boat construction, i'm not sure if this area in the bow is hollow? or full of foam? or what?
I'm posting a link to photobucket pics below so you can see what i'm talking about. The first photo shows what area is affected circled in red, only the left side seems to be soft, the right is solid.
and the second photo shows up close a spot where the rot has started a hole in the wall. it looks like a layer of fiberglass then wood and finally foam.
as i said i'm not an expert but i'm wondering if this area is hollow if water may have gotten into it and sat in the left corner.
anyway, asking for opinions on what i might do, i'm not planning on having this boat forever but i would like to have it in the best shape possible.
thought about cutting it open to see if i could replace the wood and refiberglass it, but i wanted some opinions before cutting into it.
thanks in advance
shawn

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn30/scfg95/boat014.jpg
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn30/scfg95/boat013.jpg

 

[oops!]

Re: Got a 77 Bayliner Mutiny with some rot issues, HELP

welcome to i boats !

restoration forum....home of the rotted transom .....

sorry its late.....and im stoned on glass fumes !

as far as the transom.....check check and re check that puppie to see if it will make it thru the season.......if it fails...u sink !

ok...the rot up front is easy....take a grinder and cut the whole vertical peice out...its tabbed in on the sides....be careful to not chew thru the hull.....

replace the wood with exterior grade plywood....whatever the thickness is of the wood coming out.....

and re glass it in with at least a 10 oz chopped strand matt....

but heres the catch....yer running a bayliner.....(one of my boats is a 89 capri 19 footer).....as you know ...bliners were a price point boat, so they were made cheaply......

you have issues on the transom and in an area that doesnt uasually have rot.....im afarid the rest of the boat might be rotted as well. this means stringers and flotation foam is wet as well......

this means the boat might be unsafe.....you really need to inspect it fully.
an unsafe boat can kill people....

if the transom is good, and the rot is not bad, you want to run it this season....

stick to small lakes....in calm waters and do not run it hard...wake jumping power turns...ect.

then in the winter ....were here......it might be a full re-fit.......

but in the mean time....fully inspect the boat......

btw......on your title....please add at least your area......it really helps us ...as we kinda know what waters are near you and what kind of water your boating in, as well as a multitude of info that can help you avoid little things...like a cracked block....

post back when you ve inspected a little deeper.
and your among friends here

chreers
oops

 

[77mutiny]

Re: Got a 77 Bayliner Mutiny with some rot issues, HELP

hey thanks for the quick reply, regarding the whole boat being rotted........it's something i've been crossing my fingers about, the floor looks like the original floor and it's been fiberglassed to the hull, so my only option for looking below is to cut that open as well, but might be something i gotta do. I'm gonna go ahead and tackle the area below the dash first and see what it looks like behind there, and that should give me some idea of what i'm dealing with. thanks for the advice.
btw, i'm boating out of biloxi ms, stationed here in the military, so for the time being whenever i get the courage to put it on the water i'll just be putting around in the back bay.
thanks again
shawn

 

[oops!]

Re: Got a 77 Bayliner Mutiny with some rot issues, HELP

hey shawn thanks for adding your area.......that little bit of info really helps us help you.

ok....i agree, when you get in there youll know more of the condition....

there is an easy way to check the floor, stringers, and foam as well...

find an inconspicous area....(under a seat...ect)...thake a big hole saw and cut out a small section, have a look. you might just see foam, depending on where you cut the inspection hole. if you see foam. take a pvc pipe...(tube) and cut two "teeth" in it....screw it down thru the foam till you hit hull and pull it out......this will give you a core sample of the foam. you will know immeadately if it is wet.

if its wet its gotta come out.....(but again....read the first post and make your desicision on how and when you want to fix it).

the core sample can be put back in and the peice of wood from the hole saw can be reinstalled and sealed with pl preimum or 3m 4200.

cheers
oops

 

[77mutiny]

Re: Got a 77 Bayliner Mutiny with some rot issues, HELP

thanks for the idea on the flooring, thats definitely what i'll do, crossing my fingers for good luck. i'll report back with what i find, thanks for all the help.
shawn

 

[oops!]

Re: Got a 77 Bayliner Mutiny with some rot issues, HELP

good luck bud......

tell us what u find

 

[77mutiny]

Re: Got a 77 Bayliner Mutiny with some rot issues, HELP

Well.......bad news, i did what you suggested, drilled a test hole and checked the foam, water was dripping out of it before i even had the sample out of the pipe.........
So no doubt about it, i'm looking at new foam, probably new stringers, and a new floor. Right now i plan on cutting the floor out, leaving a few inches on the sides where it's fiberglassed to the hull, tear out all the foam and go from there.
Does anyone know of any good step by step guides for redoing the floor on a v-hull?
I've been looking around and have a pretty good idea of what i need to do, but i don't want to do anymore damage to it.
Also the previous owner just had the interior wall of the hull carpeted instead of putting siding with carpet inside, would you recommend i do this on the refit?
thanks in advance

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Got a 77 Bayliner Mutiny with some rot issues, HELP

Check out my "unintentional stringer job" thread as well as many, many other good threads here, like Oops' "Hull extension in progress" thread. Both our boats are V hulls.

You aren't the first to have to do this, many have gone through the pain before you and are here and willing to help


Erik

 

[77mutiny]

Re: Got a 77 Bayliner Mutiny with some rot issues, HELP

Well, it's been two months now since i got this boat, and so far i've pulled the motor, the cap, the bow full of foam, and the floor. Now it comes to chipping all the foam out of the floor around the stringers.
But as i sit here looking at my foam with puddles of water on top of it, it occurs to me.........WHY didn't I ever call the dealer and ask for a refund?
The short answer is i figured i was screwed, stuck with an AS IS boat, but the more i read about some of the trials and tribulations of other buyers on this site ( i read the forum almost religiously, like a good book) the more i think about how i was absolutely lied to about the condition of the boat, and as a first time boat buyer, i had no idea what i was buying.
I relied on the word of the salesman that this boat was in SAFE (HA!) running condition, with no rot in the wood (I DID ASK ABOUT THAT) and ready to take on the water.
He assured me that it was traded in for a bigger boat by the son of an old man that had died who had taken great care of it.
So before i bought it, i looked it over, knocked on the floor (the top felt sturdy, but underneath was a whole nother story), and had them run the motor. Everything seemed fine to me, had i been reading iboats forums before then i would have known there was NO WAY a 1977 bayliner had no rot in it.

And now here i am, 2 months later and i know more about boats than i ever thought i would need to know.
There has to be at least 20 or more gallons of water in the foam, who knows until i get to the bottom of the hull.
All of the stringers and floor are rotted, it only felt sturdy because of the glass over it.
And the transom is pretty much paper...no kidding it flakes off in some areas when you touch it.
There's no doubt in my mind that if i had ever taken the boat on the water it would have either sank, or the motor would have dropped off......who knows, but it was no where near running condition.

So here's the dilemma, for some reason i just had this awakening today, and i really should have taken immediate action once i saw any sign of rot, let alone pulled the floor up.
I paid 1.300,00 for this boat, a 1977 with an 89 90hp johnson v4, the motor hopefully runs fine and if so that will be my one good thing out of this boat.
I called the dealer today to discuss the matter with them and see if they were willing to work with me in any way, but i wanted to get some of your guys' opinions before i go any further.
I know it might not seem like a lot of money to some people, but 1.300,00 for a boat in this condition i think is a complete rip off, i don't think i should have paid more than 300-500$ because it is most definitley a project boat and should have been sold as such.
Also, this boat was bought via an ad on iboats, for a dealer who lists on iboats, and has an iboats hosted website. I won't say their name yet until i figure out what i'm gonna do, don't want to get anyone in trouble.
And I drove 12hrs each way to pick up this boat from where i live, thats right a total of 24 hrs round trip!!! figure 300$ on gas alone on top of the purchase price.
So whadya all think?
Has it been too long to justify any type of complaint on my part?
Do i have a reasonable argument?
Should i just cut my losses and bite my lip?
File a complaint with iboats maybe?

thanks in advance for all the mind filling info you guys have on this forum

 

[77mutiny]

Re: Got a 77 Bayliner Mutiny with some rot issues, HELP

i should have pointed out that although i called the dealer today, there was no answer and i left a message for the owner/manager to call me back

 

[Coors]

Re: Got a 77 Bayliner Mutiny with some rot issues, HELP

You bought a used boat, without having the benefit of the knowledge in Iboats...most of us are in here because we did it too.
Now, what do you want to do?
Fix it?
Save the ob and trash the hull?
Repairs sound like more than you want, with the hull.
find a good hull, and put your ob on it.

If you want to repair it, for the fun, and be upside down- the real deal is here.
No other forum has the knowledge, for free, that is here.

Good luck.

 

[77mutiny]

Re: Got a 77 Bayliner Mutiny with some rot issues, HELP

Coors, yeah i still plan on repairing it if the dealer doesn't respond, i just feel as though i should warn others or iboats about this dealer...... Myself or someone else could have really gotten hurt if i had tried to take this boat out on the water.
Also, when i first started noticing the rot, i was thinking that at least i didn't spend too much on it, but as i researched more, it's my belief that a boat in this condition isn't even worth half of what i paid for it by comparing it to other boats bought in the same condition.
I suppose the value is all relative on the buyer though.
thanks for the opinion

 

[fixb52s]

Re: Got a 77 Bayliner Mutiny with some rot issues, HELP

What you are currently living is the norm here. Old boats, no matter how good they might look are more work than first thought. Camel in Dover is going through it now as we speak. He thought the deck had a few issues and found out otherwise. Heck, I have just went through it too, and I thought I knew better. My $1K boat that the dead owner's wife traded on an RV was "taken care of" too, and it turned out to be a pile under the deck. I think it is safe to say that ANY boat older than 1995 with wood in it will need a new deck and transom unless there is some proof they were properly replaced. You will see it over and over again.

As for the dealer, I would not hold my breath. As you saw, what you think is a detailed inspection will not turn up the mess. Only tearing it out will show the damage, something a dealer will never do. After 2 months, they will probably not touch it. If it was caught a day or 2 after the purchase, then maybe. It would seem unfair to slam the dealer for something they thought would be a decent boat. If they KNEW there would be issues and did not tell you, then there might be a case. But as you saw, solid fiberglass does a great job at masking rotted wood.

Your next move is based on what YOU want to do. It might cost some time, labor and money to bring it back into shape, but you will have a good solid boat. The best part (and it is really difficult to see it at times)is it will still cost a lot less money than a newer boat.

Trust me, I had those moments of doubt while working on mine (even thought of writing a book about how old boats really suck based on my trials), but now the major work is done and I have it on the water. Sure, I am still working on it (buffing the hull to make it pretty now), but I have a total of less than $3500 in it, it runs like a top, and I know it is solid and will last longer than I will own it.​