Has anyone actually used Wolmanized plywood?

[lawyertob]

Okay, I am just about ready to start putting my boat back together, and it is time to start choosing materials.<br /><br />I have done a lot of research, and Wolmanized plywood sounds like the greatest thing since sliced bread. Treatment provides both fungicidal and critter protection, and the treatment won't leach out even if it gets wet. And lets face it, no matter how carefully I glass this stuff in, sooner or later some water is going to get in there...heck there is a certain amount of water in there even after it has been kiln dried.<br /><br />I understand that the plywood needs to be kiln dried after treatment or it will be too wet to glass in. This is especially true if I glass both sides and edges and the plywood is completely sealed inside a fiberglass shell.<br /><br />Now, I know that some people say that resin won't stick to treated wood...other people say that it WILL stick to modern, non-petroleum based treated wood.<br /><br />I guess what I am looking for here is people with ACTUAL experience with this stuff. Tribal knowledge doesn't count...I want to hear from people who have ACTUALLY used the stuff. And no, it does not count if your neighbor knows a guy who used to go to school with a girl who is dating a guy who read on the Internet about someone who used it. <br /><br />I am especially interested in hearing from anyone who used Wolmanized plywood with poly resin. I know that Epoxy is "better". But it seems like the poly that was put in my boat to begin with is still holding pretty darn tight. In any case, I will post another thread for an epoxy versus poly debate if necessary.<br /><br />$0.01 for your thoughts,<br />Joe

 

[loosechange]

Re: Has anyone actually used Wolmanized plywood?

to avoide all these problems look into daytona board or star board they dont rot or attract critters and you can glass over them have used them both on a friends boat 3 years and stii going strong the boat sits outside when not in use. hope this helps

 

[BillP]

Re: Has anyone actually used Wolmanized plywood?

Here's my $0.01 thoughts...<br /><br />For another credible source on the subject try the APA. They have tests and remarks on glassing over pt ply...but it is with the CCA process and not brand specific. Their tests show poly sticks to CCA same as non treated wood if it is dry. http://www.apawood.org/ <br /><br />On a different slant, I used standard pt ply/timber and air dried it for approx three months to one year in my shop. Then used it for transom, floors, stringers and bunks in a project. It is too young to know if it lasts but I'm not worried...and epoxy was used.<br /><br />Then there is Greenwood Products who mfgs marine pt ply found in quadzillions of boats for the last 15-20 yrs. http://www.greenwoodproducts.com/moreproducts.htm <br /><br />One comment about starboard...I looked into it as a replacement for flooring. In my opinion it isn't "structural" enough for flooring or transoms without a good amount of additional framing. Heavy weight is an issue. The material is best used for other applications.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Has anyone actually used Wolmanized plywood?

Originally posted by BillP:<br /> Then there is Greenwood Products who mfgs marine pt ply found in quadzillions of boats for the last 15-20 yrs. http://www.greenwoodproducts.com/moreproducts.htm

<br /><br />Wished I had found this earlier this summer, BillP. They are right down the road from me. I have all of my floor panels cut and epoxy treated but I may stop by and take a look anyway.

 

[lawyertob]

Re: Has anyone actually used Wolmanized plywood?

Originally posted by loosechange:<br /> to avoide all these problems look into daytona board or star board they dont rot or attract critters and you can glass over them have used them both on a friends boat 3 years and stii going strong the boat sits outside when not in use. hope this helps

Loosechange,<br /><br /> Thanks, for the reply. I did look at Star board...until a saw a price of nearly $500 a sheet. Do you have a source that is more reasonably priced? It sounds like pretty good stuff, just way out of my budget.<br /><br />Thanks,<br />Joe

 

[lawyertob]

Re: Has anyone actually used Wolmanized plywood?

Originally posted by BillP:<br /> Here's my $0.01 thoughts...<br /><br />For another credible source on the subject try the APA. They have tests and remarks on glassing over pt ply...but it is with the CCA process and not brand specific. Their tests show poly sticks to CCA same as non treated wood if it is dry. http://www.apawood.org/ <br /><br />

BillP,<br /><br />Thanks for the reply and the info. I read for hours on the APA web site. I didn't find anything about the Wolmanized process on there, but maybe they are using a different chemical terminology for it. The Wolmanized people call it copper azole or something like that. I guess, it is time to do some cross checking and get even more information overloaded. <br /><br />Thanks,<br />Joe

 

[prockvoan]

Re: Has anyone actually used Wolmanized plywood?

I had used treated plywood on the last 5 boat projects.Anything from stringers to transom replacement.Complety encasing it to just glassing it on the seams.Used poly resin about 90% of the time.It work for me,just have to find real dry wood to work with.

 

[lawyertob]

Re: Has anyone actually used Wolmanized plywood?

Originally posted by prockvoan:<br /> I had used treated plywood on the last 5 boat projects.Anything from stringers to transom replacement.Complety encasing it to just glassing it on the seams.Used poly resin about 90% of the time.It work for me,just have to find real dry wood to work with.

Prockvoan,<br /><br />Thanks for the reply. The dry wood requirement seem to be the crux of the matter. Have you by any chance used the Wolmanized brand of PT plywood?<br /><br />Thanks,<br />Joe

 

[BillP]

Re: Has anyone actually used Wolmanized plywood?

Joe,<br />Wolmanized brand uses the CCA (Chromium Copper Arsenic)process which is the same as 99% of all other pt wood mfgs. The Wolmanized folks have been around for a long time...my grandfather was manager of a Wolmanized Company Lumber Yard in the 1950s.

 

[lawyertob]

Re: Has anyone actually used Wolmanized plywood?

Originally posted by BillP:<br /> Joe,<br />Wolmanized brand uses the CCA (Chromium Copper Arsenic)process which is the same as 99% of all other pt wood mfgs. The Wolmanized folks have been around for a long time...my grandfather was manager of a Wolmanized Company Lumber Yard in the 1950s.

BillP,<br /><br />You are exactly right. It is the Wolmanized Natural Select brand that uses the copper azole preservative. Apparently it is slightly less toxic to people and also works on some copper resistant fungi.<br /><br />Now, I have to go back and determine which flavor of Wolmanized I decided was best...although I am not sure the Natural Select version is available in plywood. Also, need to see which is available here. I keep forgetting to call the lumber yard until it is after closing.<br /><br />Anyway, thanks for straightening me out on the chemicals. I am suffering from information overload so bad that I barely remember my name.<br /><br />I am tempted to just throw some plywood in the transom, throw some more on the floor, and just go fishing...or maybe duck hunting. Heck, if I just put plain old PT plywood in and didn't glass any of it, it would last for a good long time. <br /><br />Thank again,<br />Joe

 

[prockvoan]

Re: Has anyone actually used Wolmanized plywood?

Joe,I used Wolmanized Brand every time.Thats all they sell in the one red light town I live in.

 

[lawyertob]

Re: Has anyone actually used Wolmanized plywood?

Originally posted by prockvoan:<br /> Joe,I used Wolmanized Brand every time.Thats all they sell in the one red light town I live in.

Prockvoan,<br /><br />Thanks for the information. The Wolmanized PT plywood sounds like it would last forever just bare, but I will cover it with resin and mat anyway. I don't EVER want to have to do this again.<br /><br />Also thanks for calming my fears about the poly resin. I know it stuck hard to the original plywood...although if strongly pried at with a chisel it will let go of the wood for the most part...there were some areas were it tore in the middle of a layer of cloth and some others where wood pulled away, but for the most part it separated at the wood glass interface. But this was after being pried at with a chisel! Epoxy may be "better" but it sounds like either will get the job done.<br /><br />Thanks for the input,<br />Joe

 

[Chris1956]

Re: Has anyone actually used Wolmanized plywood?

Joe, I have used wolmanized plywood to replace the floors and I/O motor boxes in both of my boats. I also used polyester resin and cloth to both secure and cover the plywood. I always dry it out well in the sun for several days. It would probably be better if I dryed it for weeks, but I was too impatient to complete the repair and go boating. I have had good results (6 years and no issues). The CCA treatment has been replaced by several new kinds of pressure treatment solutions. I have not used this plywood as of yet.<br /><br />I also make it a point to use wolmanized solid lumber where solid lumber is required. I cover it with resin and glass, again where required and use epoxy or poly as necessary. The lumber is dry, and seems to have the same ability to bond to the resin as non-treated.

 

[lawyertob]

Re: Has anyone actually used Wolmanized plywood?

Chris1956 and everyone else with input,<br /><br />Thank you all for the information and the input. I feel better knowing that others have used these materials successfully.<br /><br />I will definitely be using PT plywood for my deck. And poly resin sounds like it will work just fine. I have already decided on the 4 pound foam as well. And the transom is going to be Seacast. <br /><br />I still need to decide whether to use PT wood or Seacast for the Stringers. I am also still trying to decide on a design and materials for some kneeboards I am going to add to the transom. And of course there are some replace, re-chrome, paint questions to be solved. I will do some searches first, and if I still haven't figured them out I will post another thread or two.<br /><br />Thanks again everyone,<br />Joe

 

[BillP]

Re: Has anyone actually used Wolmanized plywood?

Seacast is ok but cost and WEIGHT is high. I'd personally use pt for ALL the parts and glass over them. <br /><br />Dry your pt faster by letting a $10 fan blow on it 24x7. If outside, flooding the surface with acetone will speed it up too.

 

[lawyertob]

Re: Has anyone actually used Wolmanized plywood?

Originally posted by BillP:<br /> Seacast is ok but cost and WEIGHT is high. I'd personally use pt for ALL the parts and glass over them. <br /><br />Dry your pt faster by letting a $10 fan blow on it 24x7. If outside, flooding the surface with acetone will speed it up too.

BillP,<br /><br />Yeah, the cost is high...but I don't want to EVER do this again I did check on the weight and a plywood transom for my boat with a couple of layers of glass and cloth would probably weigh about 30 pounds. It will take almost exactly 5 gallons of Seacast to fill my transom. According to the Seacast people a 5 gallon kit has a shipping weight of about 35 pounds including the packaging. They claim that the Seacast itself weighs about the same as marine plywood, but is three times as strong. It sounds like it weighs about the same, or maybe a couple of pounds more, and I would never have to worry about it getting wet and rotting.<br /><br />As for the PT plywood for the deck, I am going to try to make arrangements to pick up my plywood as quickly as possible after it comes out of the kiln. I may even try to rig up a dehumidifying system to try and pull even more moisture out.<br /><br />I am going to post a thread soon for ideas on how to soak the plywood in resin. One thing I am not figuring out is whether people put hardener in the resin before brushing or soaking. It seems to me that once you put a layer on with hardener in it, that once it cures, no more should go in. Damn, that was a hard idea to get across grammatically, do you understand what I am saying?<br /><br />Just my $0.02 worth,<br />Joe

 

[BillP]

Re: Has anyone actually used Wolmanized plywood?

I thought the transom would take more than 5 gals of Seacast. Anyway it will last for sure.<br /><br />Yes you add hardener...always. Thin the resin for penetration on first coat or two. Last coats will make sure any pinholes are sealed. You want to fill the grain. Use laminating resin, it stays tacky between coats and means you don't have to sand.

 

[lawyertob]

Re: Has anyone actually used Wolmanized plywood?

Originally posted by BillP:<br /> . . . Yes you add hardener...always. Thin the resin for penetration on first coat or two. Last coats will make sure any pinholes are sealed. You want to fill the grain. Use laminating resin, it stays tacky between coats and means you don't have to sand.

Thanks BillP,<br /><br />I kind of knew that you had to add hardener...otherwise the resin takes thousands of years to cure. . . still haven't figured out how the later coats get through the first one though.<br /><br />Now here is a crazy idea I am having:<br />I am considering building a tray that I can put my cut out floor pieces in and soak them in resin. I wonder how much resin approximately three sheets of plywood would soak up? Anyway, I probably won't do it...it is a little to much overkill even for me. <br /><br />Another $0.02 worth,<br />Joe

 

[BillP]

Re: Has anyone actually used Wolmanized plywood?

I think you don't want to soak them in a tray because ply doesn't take much resin to seal it. Using a roller of any width works fine. Just keep adding coats until the wood fibers are filled and the sheets have a glossy suface. The first thinned coat goes deep and the remaining coat or two just fill and make sure all fibers are protected. It usually takes me one thinned coat and one regular topcoat to seal ply. Do the edges until they won't take resin anymore...a throw away brush works good for pressing resin into the edges. It's easy to do...try a sample piece for a trial run first.

 

[lawyertob]

Re: Has anyone actually used Wolmanized plywood?

BillP,<br /><br />Thanks for the info. I don't have much experience with glass and resin, so this should be a learning experience...I just hope I don't make any mistakes of the expensive variety. <br /><br />Do you have a ballpark idea how much 3 sheets worth will absorb, and/or how much the whole job will take in terms of resin?<br /><br />[EDIT] Also, the original floor on my boat was glassed with one layer of cloth on top and was bare on the bottom. I think it is best to put resin on both sides and all edges, right? I have heard it explained that they leave one side open to allow evaporation...IOW, if you do both sides and water does get in , then it can't get out. The argument to leave one side bare almost makes sense...except that all of the decay on my floor was on the bottom side.<br /><br />Thanks,<br />Joe