help before buying boat...

[sti1471]

I have a boat I am looking at buying. It is a 1987 larson 17 foot open bow boat. It has a merc 140 HP engine anout drive. The owner says it needs a new water pump and shift shaft.

How hard is it to replace a shift shaft on a merc Inboard.
How much can I get a new shift shaft for, and would a professional install be required? I am good with engines, but never worked on a boat I/O before.

Are there any other issues with the engine that are typical when a shift shaft needs to be replacedor further damage that caused the shift shaft to fail? He says it will not go into reverse. Thanks guys.

 

[achris]

Re: help before buying boat...

I hope the boat is dirt cheap. I suspect he means shift cable, not shift shaft. It's not a difficult job, if you've done a few. It can be a bit daunting for a first-timer. If you do go ahead with the purchase, and do the replacement work yourself, then while you have the drive and bellhousing off, replace the uni-joint bellows and shift bellows at the same time. Replacing the water pump impeller involves splitting the drive, agin easy once you've done it a few times, but a few 'traps for young players' in there too....

Before you make the purchase, get a hold of the service manuals and have a read of what you are letting yourself in for....
For 1987 you'll need manual #6 for the drive (it should be an Alpha One), and for the 4 cylinder engines the manual is #10.

PM me if you would like help to track down those manuals....

Chris...........

 

[tpenfield]

Re: help before buying boat...

I'd say for a first timer it is about 8 on a 10 scale (hard); mostly because you will need to learn a lot to complete the work. Usually, folks try a shift cable after a few years experience working on their drives.

You may not want to buy the boat unless it is at a very low price.

 

[Fishermark]

Re: help before buying boat...

I take the other side. If you are familiar with your way around engines, and have even a modest degree of mechanical skill, replacing a shift cable is not a difficult job. You DO need to read up on how it is done, and ask some questions along the way perhaps, but certainly not anything to get terribly concerned about.

If he truly means it needs a shift shaft, then I would ask him which one. Lower? Intermediate? Not a usual need to change those.

If all the boat truly needs is a shift cable and pump, then you have nothing to worry about. Hopefully you checked the boat itself out well - especially the floor (any soft spots) - and the transom (tap and listen for hollow spots).

 

[stonyloam]

Re: help before buying boat...

Same advice as always. Hire a reliable boat surveyor to look over the boat and give you a written report on the hull, engine and outdrive. Worth it no matter what the boat costs, even if it is free. He should be able to suggest (ballpark) what the repairs will cost.

 

[sti1471]

Re: help before buying boat...

Well I am going to look at the boat tomorrow afternoon. It is a 17foot Larson Delta Conic open bow. he is asking 800.00 for the boat. he said that he had it into the marine and they quoted him at 300-400 for parts and labor for the water pump and shift shaft and he has that quote to give me in case I just decide to let them repair it.

The boat in the pics looks very nice. Some of the seats have little rips in them, but all and all it looks very nice. he said that the Boat will go into forward gear, but will not shift into reverse. He said he thinks the carbs need a rebuild kit on them, or just need to be cleaned, but he said the boat will start when i come to look at it tomorrow.

On the plus side, he said he was about the replace the shift shaft in June but went on a business trip for 2 months. he said if he replaces it for me, he will ask more in the price. but anyways, since he was about to replace it in june, he already has the lower unit removed from the boat, so that is one less thing I have to do to fix it.

here are some pics of the boat in question, is this a good deal for 800.00 for the shape, style, year of the boat with it needing a shift shaft / water pump?

 

[bnicov]

Re: help before buying boat...

If you are good with a wrench, armed with the manuals, you should be able to do the repairs yourself. If it's only $400 for parts and labour and only $800 for the boat, you may want to go that way. You need to hear the motor fire up and run for a few minutes for it to get up to temp. Check the engine oil and the outdrive oil to see if they look ok after it runs. It's an old boat but with some TLC should be able to provide you with a few years of fun.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: help before buying boat...

Howdy,

Be sure to determine that the "problem with the drive IS actually the "shift shaft" and not something else like severely worn clutch dogs or other internal drive problems....etc.....


Good luck,


Rick

 

[sti1471]

Re: help before buying boat...

What type of engine is on this boat? The guy said it was a merc 140hp. is it a ford, GM, 3.0L, 2.5L? I am trying to find parts for it to add the cost before I go see the boat today but I am not sure what type of engine is in the boat?

 

[BRG25]

Re: help before buying boat...

You do realize you are missing the lower half of your outdrive right?

Never mind....didn't read the post above.

 

[kd7isf]

Re: help before buying boat...

Its a merc140 (or merc 3.0l). Thats all any MARINE parts counter guy needs to look up parts for you. Some might want the serial number.

The engine is actually a GM Marine 3.0l (they make a similar industrial engine but they never put this one in cars).

Usually when it will shift one way and not the other 1 of three things has happened:
1. Shift cables not aligned properly -- easy fix -- 2 on scale of 10 -- align them -- see manual
2. Lower shift cable binding -- moderate fix -- 5 or 6 on scale of 10 -- replace it -- see manual, ask questions....
3. Lower unit removed and then re-installed WITHOUT following the instructions in the manual. It is VERY important that the lower and upper shift shafts are lined up -- if not, it will not shift correctly, if at all.

Since the lower unit is off anyway, turn the shaft CLOCKWISE. Yes, it will be a little hard since the water pump is dry. Move the shift lever so that it points straight out. The prop should start turning. Move the shift lever back the other way. The prop should stop turning. Keep moving the shift lever back the other way. The prop should start turning the other direction. If this works, then most likely your lower unit is good. The shift shaft is the shiney metal L sticking up out of the top, near the front of the unit. When you put lower back on, this shaft must be pointing straight forward and the shifter/throttle handle must be in forward. If you look at the bottom of the part still on the boat you will see a foot -- this foot sits on top of the lower unit's shift lever and turns it to make the shift. THESE MUST LINE UP when you put the lower back on.

The water pump is under the metal dome around the shaft where it comes out of the top of the lower unit.

Just a note from experience, if you have a damaged shift shaft, most likely it will move one way and not the other -- in other words it might shift into forward, but it would not shift back to neutral. If you can go back and forth between forward and neutral, then a shift shaft being the problem is very unlikely.. Probably a bad lower shift cable, misaligned shift cable, improperly installed lower unit (upper and lower shift shaft not lined up), or a bad clutch dog (clutch dogs are the gears in the lower unit that make the shift happen).

Hope this helps....

 

[sti1471]

Re: help before buying boat...

Thank you for all the help.

So if it is a bad clutch dog, what is the cost of this to replace?

Is there a way to tell if it is a mis-alighned cable? If he thinks it is a shift shaft, and it is something else that is simple, then i might be able to get away with a great deal on the boat. LOL.

however if it is something more than a shift shaft, then i can work that into the price of the boat, by getting more knocked off the price.

 

[sti1471]

Re: help before buying boat...

Also, in the picture of the front of the boat, there is that "brown" stain looking stuff on the hull. What is that? Is that indicating rotted stringers that are causing that brown like on a transom? Or does it indicate a leak, or is it just warped fiberglass? never seen that before on a boat on the hull.

 

[Fishermark]

Re: help before buying boat...

Also, in the picture of the front of the boat, there is that "brown" stain looking stuff on the hull. What is that? ..... never seen that before on a boat on the hull.

I've seen that before, and it is probably not good news.

It looks to me from the picture, (and I could be wrong - but you can tell when you see it) , that it has been beached many times and the sand has worn the keel down. Someone has put an amateur fiberglass patch on it. At least that's what it looks like to me. If that is the case, then I would find another boat if it were me.

 

[kd7isf]

Re: help before buying boat...

Do the check on the lower unit I described above -- if that check passes, there is a very high probability that your problem is NOT clutch dogs.....
That said, if this boat has been repeatedly beached, odd are that the drive has been abused (run into the ground, etc....)
Might want to get the entire drive checked prior to sealing the deal.... and at a DIFFERENT shop....

Hope this helps

 

[stonyloam]

Re: help before buying boat...

It is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to tell the condition of the boat from photos and the owners comments (rotten transom or cracked block or bad outdrive gears). It could need $400 worth of work or $4000:facepalm:. Find someone reliable and pay them to look it over. Money well spent whether you get the boat or not.

 

[sti1471]

Re: help before buying boat...

OK so I went and looked at the boat tonight.

I examined the engine and it is very clean. I took a buddy of mine who knows alot about boats. He said the engine looked like it was in very good condition. The front bow of the boat has a fiberglass job on it, but it is because when he was putting the boat on the trailer, his wife did not align it right and the boat scraped the boat ramp. LOL...

The seats and engine cover needs to be redone, but all in all it seems like a very nice boat. He had the lower unit off the boat and showed me the shift shaft (lower shift shaft). The teeth around the shaft are pretty much gone, as the shaft is now "round" and almost smooth so this would explain the no reverse, but the rest of the lower unit looked good, and clean.

I am no boat expert, but the boat looked like it was worth 700.00. I checked the engine oil and there was no water in it. it comes with a trailer that has rollers, where my trailer now does not. I think I am going to take the risk and get it. With the current shape of the boat, I think 700.00 is kind of a steal.

I opened the storage bin in the floor, and there was no water damage, and no signs of water damage in the gas tank bay either. Transom knock test sounded good.

I talked him down to 700.00 for the boat.