Help. Do not think mechanic's winterized my boat

[BoatY21]

Really need some help here so please read.

I have been out of the country due to deployment and have just come back to a message from a mechanic I know that works for the place I get my boat serviced. He stated my boat WAS NOT winterized just put up on an indoor rack for winter storage. He went on to say there were nine boats that never got touched back in September/October when people were bringing them in for winterization and winter storage. I have known this person for years and do not doubt his word but I do know for a fact there is some shady management at this place. I certainly can not drop his name about the situation for fear he would loose his job. I should have found another place but the dealer bs'd me about keeping my warranty this and void that, etc. Hind sight... I have found another place now and have my boat scheduled to be moved as of mid April.

This is my first boat, it has the 270 Hp Volvo 5.0 Gxi Sx. I have been super anal retentive about maintenance on this boat since it is my first. I bought it brand new and the dealer has been servicing it from day one. Not much use on it (60 ish hours) but she is might pride and joy and I have worked my six off trying to be proud of it.

I have caught them (the dealer) in two different lies about my boat, the first being it was stored inside while some items needed to be fixed and I showed up randomly three different times to find it not having moved in days (I placed rocks at certain points around the tires and took pictures with my mobile) And it was full of water to which I was pixxed off beyond belief since I spend lots of money to keep it inside year round. The second lie was an oil change last boating season which was never done. I put my initials on the oil filter and was charged for an oil change. When I opened the hatch and looked in my initials were still on the filter.

So how can I tell if the boat was winterized?? I need to have them pull the boat down from the indoor rack so I can get the battery out of it. Its not like I will have tools with me or be able to have hours with the boat to inspect it. I need to know how I can tell if the boat was ever serviced because right now I am really freaked out.

The boat is one and a half years old boat and I'm afraid it has been sitting in a non heated metal building with 18* temps at night and 34* day temps off and on for a few months with nothing but lake water in it. My fear is when I get the boat it April to move it to another storage company (for good) I will not find out until after it has left the dealer it has major damage and then they will just say I am SOL.

So what exactly do I need to look for? Please help.

Thank you.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Help. Do not think mechanic's winterized my boat

Welcome to iBoats . . .

I hope that you find a decent place to take care of your boat. The winterization process involves a combination of draining and running RV/Marine anti-freeze through the engine, as well as any plumbing that may be on the boat (porta-potti, sinks, water tanks, etc.)

Certainly the most important is the engine. In order to check, you can remove the lower hose on the 'recirculating pump' that is on the engine . . . or open one of the cylinder block drains that is on either side of the engine block, just above the oil pan . . . or remove a lower hose from the exhaust manifold(s). You want to see the pink anti-freeze running out in those cases . . . or see nothing. If you see ice, slushy water, then it would be an indication that it was not winterized.

Best of luck with it. Let us know how it goes. Thank you for your service to our country. :thumb: :usa2:

 

[Alwhite00]

Re: Help. Do not think mechanic's winterized my boat

Thank you for your service! - Where is the boat located?

LK

 

[Don S]

Re: Help. Do not think mechanic's winterized my boat

Short of running it or pressure testing the cooling system, there is no way of knowing what was done. They may have just drained the cooling system and put it in storage, in which case, nothing would be freeze damaged.

So how can I tell if the boat was winterized??

What did they charge you for? Some places call winterizing draining the block. Other places do the full job (oil and filter change, lube, drive oil, pulling out drive and checking bellows and alignment, draining, etc.)

 

[aerobat]

Re: Help. Do not think mechanic's winterized my boat

hell, make at least sure your block is drained or you may learn the very hard way next spring if temperatures will be solid under freezing level !

 

[BoatY21]

Re: Help. Do not think mechanic's winterized my boat

Thank you for your replies.

So pretty much short of pulling hoses or drain plugs and checking for the "pink stuff" or watching lake water run out of the block there is no way to tell? I pulled the leads off the battery and checked the oil level, took a picture of the hour meter before I dropped it off. Its a 22 foot cruiser so no head to pump out and the water tank is only a few gallons but it was "supposed" to have been drained with the winter service.

The boat is in North Carolina. This winter has been much colder here compared to the last two or three and this is why I am worried. Not really cold compared to Canada or NY state etc. Knowing I have seen the doors to the winter storage building open overnight before and there has been 20* nights for two or three nights in a row I am very concerned.

I have already found a Volvo certified place that I have spoken to as well as four or five of their customers. I am doing my research this time vs just getting told "we are the all knowing all powerful dealer and only we can take care of your boat" type of thing.

I pulled my receipts from the first time it went into winter storage and was "supposedly" winterized. I've kept everything from the first hour on the boat and it just says "Winterize engine 185$", nothing of what is done to it. I am just really hoping that with 60ish hours on it my boat is not ruined.

Thanks again for the replies.

 

[Don S]

Re: Help. Do not think mechanic's winterized my boat

Many places don't use antifreeze, they just drain them (Air Don't Freeze and break things). So don't be surprised if you don't see pink antifreeze come out.

it just says "Winterize engine 185$"

Didn't you even ask them what you get for that $185?

 

[BoatY21]

Re: Help. Do not think mechanic's winterized my boat

Short of running it or pressure testing the cooling system, there is no way of knowing what was done. They may have just drained the cooling system and put it in storage, in which case, nothing would be freeze damaged.

What did they charge you for? Some places call winterizing draining the block. Other places do the full job (oil and filter change, lube, drive oil, pulling out drive and checking bellows and alignment, draining, etc.)

Don - So if they just drained the block nothing should be damaged? What if its worse case scenario and its been sitting there since September with lake water in it?

From what they told me when I purchased the boat everything you listed was supposed to be done as part of the winterizing process. I pulled my only winterizing invoice since I have had the boat and it says nothing of what they did. They told me all of the above would be done at the 20 hour break in service, a quick check at each service, when it went in for winter storage and checking over things in spring to ensure its good to go before and after each boating season.

 

[Don S]

Re: Help. Do not think mechanic's winterized my boat

Don - So if they just drained the block nothing should be damaged? What if its worse case scenario and its been sitting there since September with lake water in it?

If they drained it, you will be fine, if they didn't you will probably have problems. As you can tell by my avatar, my crystal ball has problems too.

 

[aerobat]

Re: Help. Do not think mechanic's winterized my boat

What if its worse case scenario and its been sitting there since September with lake water in it?

the worst case scenario is that the water inside freezes , expands and cracks your block from inside. then you can throw away your engine.

but lets not panic- i cannot imagine somebody charges you for winterizing and does not even drain the block. maybe its a misunderstanding and they drained it .

in any case- keep your receipt - when a service center charges your for winterization and you have freeze damage they should pay you the new engine.

and its a good idea to call them and get a confirmation the block is drained ( or full with antifreeze )

 

[BoatY21]

Re: Help. Do not think mechanic's winterized my boat

The boat was dropped to them to fix a problem, I told them after it was fixed it needed to be winterized and stored. The thing that makes me think they did nothing is that I came home to a bill for winter storage fee's only. Nothing was on the bill about winter service no charge or nothing stating they did it for free.

Either they gave me free winter service due to the problem that the boat was there for out of the goodness of their hearts (no way in hell this happened) or they knew I was out of the country and just stuck it on a rack thinking that I am an idiot and would not check.

What I am going to attempt to do is go to the storage location this week and try to figure out if they did or did not do anything. I wont have access to the boat for hours so I was looking for a quick way to tell if service was done or not.

 

[Don S]

Re: Help. Do not think mechanic's winterized my boat

The boat was dropped to them to fix a problem, I told them after it was fixed it needed to be winterized and stored. The thing that makes me think they did nothing is that I came home to a bill for winter storage fee's only. Nothing was on the bill about winter service no charge or nothing stating they did it for free.

Either they gave me free winter service due to the problem that the boat was there for out of the goodness of their hearts (no way in hell this happened) or they knew I was out of the country and just stuck it on a rack thinking that I am an idiot and would not check.

What I am going to attempt to do is go to the storage location this week and try to figure out if they did or did not do anything. I wont have access to the boat for hours so I was looking for a quick way to tell if service was done or not.

Have you actually called them and asked all these questions and voiced your concerns with them?

We can't do anything for you from here other than say good luck, etc.

It would be nice if there was some magic answer to your problem, but there isn't. Contact an attorney and see what they say you should do. This forum is to help you fix a boat, not explain how to deal with a dealer you didn't trust to begin with.
You knew he couldn't be trusted from previous experiences, but you left your boat with him anyway. Why would you do that?

 

[aerobat]

Re: Help. Do not think mechanic's winterized my boat

don is spot on - there is no way to judge if the block was drained or not from the informations you gave, we cannot say.

i understand now the 180 bucks were for storage and not winterization.

i cannot judge if a dealer would be bold enough to just store an inboard unheated with sure temperatures far below freezing without calling the owner even when he just requested storage and not winterizing , but like said : call the dealer, ask if the block was drained ! dont discuss about general winterization or storage, ask straight ahead : did you drained the block before winter ?

when not , stored in temperatures about 17deg fahrenheit for consecutive nights you are probably done. so think if you can charge the dealer from the agreement you done.

 

[BoatY21]

Re: Help. Do not think mechanic's winterized my boat

Sorry Don S. All I was asking for is a way to verify the boat has been winterized. That's all. The United States Army trained me as a medic, not as a boat repair man hence coming here for answers. I did not want to drag all this out since it was in no way shape or form relevant but you asked.

I had zero choice in taking it too them as there were issues with the gel coat coming off the damn boat. I HAD to take it to them for the warranty work. I still have not even seen the work so I really hope that they did not screw that up as well. I was told "maybe we can fix it, ain't never seen this problem but heck well give it a go" In the beginning the story was they would send it back to the factory, that never happened. So not only is there a possibility that some ignorant hillbilly that has a two week of training in fiberglass repair has effed up both sides of the boat there is also the chance it has sit for the last few months with water in it cracking the block.

I wanted to have it moved to another marina for service and storage after the warranty work and had that arranged. Then I was told make sure your will is current you get to go back to the sandbox. Three deployments and this one was lucky number three for me.

All I sought was advice on how to tell if the boat had been serviced or not with a quick look here or there. They have my money for storage and it is paid for until April. I have no place to put the boat until then. So the BEST I was hoping for was a tip or trick to see if the boat had been winterized in the limited amount of time I will have with the boat at the end of this week plus getting around on crutches is a PITA.

I am not part of the "sue culture" and that is the last thing on my mind. To be brutally honest getting my leg rehabbed back to 100% after being in a mortar strike, deciding if my skills are at a level to find a job in the private sector vs going back to trying to stop 20 year old kids from bleeding out because their leg is blown off at the knee, getting my ex fiance's sxxt out of my home, etc all are at the top of my to do list. I was trying to protect my 40k investment that along with a bottle of beer and a buffet cd is what keeps me sane and learn too a little in the process.

Sorry if my questions were pointless and interrupted your day. Please feel free to contact a mod, remove these posts as well as remove my account. I will figure it. Happy boating.

 

[BoatY21]

Re: Help. Do not think mechanic's winterized my boat

Areo -

I will go and try to verify for myself before I speak to the service department. It is hard to make sure people are doing the right thing from an active combat zone. The dealer has been very bold with some of the liberties they have taken with customers boats. Including last year two tech's being fired for taking a boat (150k 30 footer) which was on consignment out to impress their girlfriends. Ran it into a shoal to the tune of 10 grand was what I was told.

I will figure it out one way or another. Was just looking for tips or tricks from older and more experienced boaters. Thanks for your replies.

 

[Don S]

Re: Help. Do not think mechanic's winterized my boat

All I sought was advice on how to tell if the boat had been serviced or not with a quick look here or there.

As was said a few times, there is no way of knowing without testing or running it. Sorry we didn't have an easy answer for you.

Did you ask them if they winterized it? That would have been the first thing I would have though of doing.

 

[aerobat]

Re: Help. Do not think mechanic's winterized my boat

I will go and try to verify for myself before I speak to the service department.

ok, you will have reasons you want to find out yourself and not ask. trying to help ,my ideas to ckeck if winterziation/draining occoured from your options now are the following :

-of course open the drain plugs and look if significant amounts of water comes out. when yes, you have the answer , when no you do not know anything because no water may mean :

a) the block was drained
b) the block was not drained but the water inside is frozen solid ( temps under freezing assumed)
c) the block was not drained and cracked and the water went out on the cracks when temps in daytime were above freezing

-when the drain plugs are still open or houses from lets say the water pump removed assume draining work was done of course.

-further look for freezing plugs on the block and the manifold- are they pushed out and in the bilge or do they all look ok ?

-look closely at the block and the manifold and search with a flashlight for cracks and rust from water pourings.

-look if your oil level is significantly above maximum

thats about draining, now winterization :

-does the oil filter looks brand new ?
-does the engine oil looks brand new?
-do you see fresh signs of unscrewing the drive nuts ?
-do you see fesh signs of removing the drive oil drain screw ?

hell, thats all very sneaky :facepalm: , my best quess is still to go to the dealer and claim some questions, maybe to the mechanic employed , not the boss.

and move your boat away asap when its true what you aright about the dealer.

Sorry if my questions were pointless and interrupted your day. Please feel free to contact a mod, remove these posts as well as remove my account. I will figure it. Happy boating.

don is a moderator, he could fulfill your both wishes without asking anybody. but he is trying to help you , but he is also realistic there is not an easy answer for your question.

good luck and best regards !

 

[woody66912]

Re: Help. Do not think mechanic's winterized my boat

This is the reason why every boat that comes in for winterizing at the shop i work at gets a tag when done.
Storage tag means boat is winterized and ready to go into storage.
Winterized tag means customer pick up.
If we have a IO without a tag "THE COOLING SYSTEM WILL BE DRAINED" regardless and tagged.
All tags except for name tags are put on by mechanics.

 

[BoatY21]

Re: Help. Do not think mechanic's winterized my boat

Im not trying to be sneaky in any way shape or form. I am trying to verify that if my boat with less than 60 hours now has a Volvo paperweight in it vs an engine that will work in a couple of months.

The reason my boat even went back to them was for warranty work - they DROPPED my boat people. Yeah they dropped the boat and it hit the corner of a rack at the bottom when an untrained shop worker was trying to shoehorn extra boats into an already overcrowded building. 1 tech - ONE TECHNICIAN owned up to seeing this happen out of the four that were present when it happened. Guess what, they fired his ***. They took out a chunk of the bottom of the boat and THEN fought me to cover the bottom painting that I paid for (a grand) after purchasing the boat. They wanted to fix the hole and paint the surrounding area white like it came from the factory and nothing more. My bottom paint is friggin black. This is how idiotic the situation is. This is why I do not trust them.

They lied about doing a basic oil change on my boat as well and I am not the only customer that has had issues like this. One customer had hours showing up on his boat that he did not put on, found out there were guys in the shop out running boats of the customers when they were supposed to be out of service for "service".

The reason I want to verify this so badly is because I have already lined up a new place to take the boat too (fully vetted) from the beginning of March until the end of summer as a trial and sign a full year contract if I like them. I am moving the boat as soon as I can but the idiots that are currently storing the boat are the type that if I moved the boat and there was an issue with the engine later they will tell me go **** yourself (which I have actually heard of them doing) then I will have boat I am paying storage on, be buying a new damn engine out of pocket (which I cannot afford at the moment) and not having the one thing that keeps me even a little sane when I can even get the time to use it.

Not trying to be covert, slick etc. I am trying to avoid a possible crap storm of epic proportion because if the block is cracked and that boat leaves their facility its ALL on me. I do not even remotely feel they would stand behind something they did. I would rather know now because I have a company who has multiple Volvo, etc certified mechanics just waiting to pick the boat up and go through it from top to bottom. Including winterize the boat for real.

Thanks for your time. Sorry if I came off testy, got a lot going on and that no excuse.

 

[BoatY21]

Re: Help. Do not think mechanic's winterized my boat

This is the reason why every boat that comes in for winterizing at the shop i work at gets a tag when done.
Storage tag means boat is winterized and ready to go into storage.
Winterized tag means customer pick up.
If we have a IO without a tag "THE COOLING SYSTEM WILL BE DRAINED" regardless and tagged.
All tags except for name tags are put on by mechanics.

I think all true "Professionals" who take pride in their craft do the same. The new service center I have found has been around for well over a decade, zero complaints with BBB and they are more than willing to give out references who all have nothing but good things to say. The people I have been dealing with are far from professional and for some reason just do not care about the customer. It has been a learning experience for sure.