Help! I need lawyers and mechanics

[DJ]

Re: Help! I need lawyers and mechanics

I hate to say this but, your brother bought a USED boat. It is the responsibility of the buyer to have, or do yourself, a survey done.<br /><br />Apperantly, the survey was never completed. The issues described would have been easily picked out.<br /><br />Sorry, but that's the way the marine industry works.<br /><br />You'll find a lawyer to take your case, hoever I believe you're going to have a very difficult task in proving damages, especially after using it for two months.<br /><br />The best way to resolve this is to work with, not against, the dealer and give them an opportunity to make it right. You will have to agree, up front, on what is right.

 

[Doug Durako]

Re: Help! I need lawyers and mechanics

Pointer---One thing about this board, you will get many independent opinions.<br /><br />Many people on this board have chalked up similar experiences---some of them have had long battles so folks here tend to say "live and learn and fix it yourself."<br /><br />I took it in the shorts with a dealer back about 1983 and it still stings. That is why I came out of the gate so quickly with the advise to consult an attorney. I visit boat shows to see new models---I have vowed to never set foot on a boat dealer's lot again.<br /><br />I hope this works out for you and your brother and the issues are resolved quickly.

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Help! I need lawyers and mechanics

djohns,<br /><br />I fear you are right. But, based on some of the comments I have read regarding the use of automotive engines it my not be a complete disaster. <br /><br />Buyer beware, buyer beware, buyer beware.<br /><br />I also agree that this situation requires a soft hand and not a punch in the nose. The more information I gather will provide me with the direction that I can procede. <br /><br />Thanks Doug

 

[tylerin]

Re: Help! I need lawyers and mechanics

Pointer94, I have been watching this post from the start. I feel bad for you and your brother. Many of the members here have gone through what your going through. Sometimes members are going to tell you what you might not want to hear, but I will tell you this, they're here to help you. Some of the members that reply (even replied to your post) I have never seen them start a post, which means to me they're only here to help others. Good luck w/ you and your bro's boat. You guys are going to be alot more experienced at the mechanics of boating than you were before, if thats any concellation

 

[Bondo]

Re: Help! I need lawyers and mechanics

Doug, <br />In order to resolve your brothers perdicament, You'll need to "Know all your options".....<br /><br />1)welded the manifolds, You Want New exhaust manifolds......<br /> Maybe you'll get them...<br />2)cam, Forget It....<br /> There's Little or NO Difference between a Marine cut,+ a Truck/RV cut.....<br />3)water pump, steel freeze plugs, These will last Forever in Wisconsin.... NO Salt over your way......<br />4)no oil pan sump therefor the dip stick is useless and an automotive stick must be somehow hacked in This is a Blessing in Disguise.... The dip-stick is Where It Belongs(the Marine conversion is the Real Cob-Job).. In the Block....Have Your Man Add a Fitting,+ Hose in place of the drainplug... Then you can Drain through the Bilge Drain..... Or Pump it Out from the Bottom of the pan......<br />The other Issues are the General Tune-Up(Black Smoke)..... Alignment.... And the Starter(I've Never seen a starter that wouldn't come out without pulling the engine.....But, Atleast you could Paint it then)...<br /><br />Get what you can Get from the Dealer, Then Break out the Wrenches + Finnish the rest yourselfs.....<br /><br /> "marine engines have better rods and pistons which separate it from an automotive engine" <br />Totally Not True....

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Help! I need lawyers and mechanics

Bondo,<br /><br />Upon further research, you are absolutely right. The engines are for the purpose of this discussion, identical. Everything you have posted is exactly correct.<br /><br />The manifolds will have to be replaced. The starter is a NAPA. I don't know if they make a marine starter under the NAPA brand but if it is not it needs to be replaced.<br /><br />The engine is so far out of aleignment that the gimbal bearing may have been compromised. Because it is being run in fresh water the intake manifold material is a non starter. Sure would like to have (feel entitled to)a marine water pump but we are in fresh water so we need to work with it.<br /><br />Good idea on how to install the dip stick. <br /><br />If I would have listened on the front end of this deal I would have saved myself alot of time and frustration. Can't say I appreciate the dealer not disclosing the actual condition of the boat but the important part is I feel comfortable that the boat can be made safe and reliable.<br /><br />Thanks for staying with me though this mess and I will negotiate with the dealer to absorb some of the expense, but in the worst case my brother will only be out a sizable but manageable amount of money and have a boat he really likes.<br /><br />Oh yea, you were right about what happened, 99.9% chance they screwed up in winterization.<br /><br />I for one look forward to reading your posts and thank you for your direction.<br /><br />Doug

 

[tylerin]

Re: Help! I need lawyers and mechanics

Doug,Napa does sell starters for marine. Obviously for automotive as well.I get most of my parts and oils through Napa. Good luck

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Help! I need lawyers and mechanics

Thanks to ddboater, captn hook, f-screen, bondo, capt. ken, tylerin, and djohns. This was quite a learning experience. <br /><br />Just thought I would fill you in that this discussion has spauned a hobbie. I spoke with a friend of mine and after filling him in on how my brother and I have essentially the same engine and seeking his advise he said - "best way to learn is to do it" He suggested that we buy an old 350 off e-bay or wherever, and build it up from the gound. We will eventually need to use it or just sell it. Do likewise with an alpha 1 outdrive. Sounds like a pretty cool way to get an education.<br /><br />Thanks all- Doug

 

[Bondo]

Re: Help! I need lawyers and mechanics

Doug,<br /> Two More Thoughts.......<br /><br />1) "The engine is so far out of aleignment that the gimbal bearing may have been compromised. " <br />I'd be Alot More Concerned about the Coupler......<br />In a Mis-alignment situation, The Coupler is the 1st thing to Go.....<br /><br />2) "He suggested that we buy an old 350 off e-bay or wherever, and build it up from the gound. " <br />Cheaper, Easier, More Fun....... Buy a Complete Beat Boat, Locally...... You just might like it so Much, You'll Sell the boat you have Now......<br />You Should be able to find a boat, with a problem, for $500. or Less, On a Trailer.....<br />I do it quite often... I'm Sure not making any money doing it, But I'm having a Ball, Building them..........<br /><br />Best of Luck....... + I Still don't see any Real Problems with your brothers boat........

 

[Regalrunner]

Re: Help! I need lawyers and mechanics

And now a word from his brother.....I must say that I have found all of your information very helpful. Allowed me to remain moderate when working with the dealer. The dealer has since sent me all the parts required to bring to boat up to spec....YES, Free of charge. The motor had to be pulled in order to put in the shims for alignment and while out put in the marine starter. I recently got the boat back just in time for winter. The only problem I have left is upon starting there is a large amount of black smoke. Once it warms up, it goes away. I have never seen a motor throw out this much smoke except for two cycles. Mechanic friends think it is a carb. adjustment. Any thoughts?

 

[LubeDude]

Re: Help! I need lawyers and mechanics

Is it a marine carburator? Sounds like a stuck or misadjusted choke! <br /><br />LubeDude

 

[Regalrunner]

Re: Help! I need lawyers and mechanics

Thanks LubeDude <br /><br />Yes, it is a Marine Carb. It appears that the carb used to have the bimetallic spring that adjusted the choke. There appears to be an electronic upgrade. The ports that came from the engine block to the bi-metallic spring choke have not been capped. Should these be capped? <br /><br />I have one other small problem. The tube that carries the dip stick to the oil pan was busted at the block. It appears that there is a remenant piece of this tube still in the block. Can this drop into my oil pan and cause further problems? How can I get this piece out if there is a concern?

 

[Knightgang]

Re: Help! I need lawyers and mechanics

Being that I used to own an old truck with a carborator that was hard to start in the winter, I say that the carb needs adjusting and it needs a god tune up. It sounds like it is dumping a good bit of fuel before it fires up, and it is initally running rich.