Help! I think my head 's Exploding!

joemamma

Cadet
Joined
Jul 25, 2009
Messages
23
Hi everyone,
I have a 92 mariah 23' cuddy, 5.8 omc cobra.
my existing prop is 15 1/2 X 15 3 blade aluminum wot 4400 rpm.
the boat has a tendencey to start to fall off plane at 3000 rpm with 4 people ok 4.1/2 people and a full fuel tank. I'm rarely at wot. but I do pull a tube.
I understand dia. pitch , cup, rake, Do I go to a 4 blade or stay with a 3? If I stay with a 3, What pitch is better to get my mother in law on plane.
Do I go to a 4 blade? if so what is the equivalent lower pitch?

Someone just tell me what to do!

Thanks Joe
 

hwsiii

Commander
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Messages
2,639
Re: Help! I think my head 's Exploding!

Joe, welcome to Iboats prop forum and we will try to help you as much as we can, but there is certain information that is needed in order to help you. Working over the internet and not being able to see the boat or prop the question is about makes it much harder to propose a solution to the correct prop that you need, and most people don?t know the make and model of the prop . When we get information in bits and pieces we continually have to look back and forth to try and piece the information together. The following form has all of the information that is needed to help you with your problems in finding the right prop. If you do not know all of the information that is asked for on the form please give us the most information you have available as I have a program I designed to find the right prop for any planing hull boat that needs this information. It requires time to find all this information when we have to look for it and in my defense I expect you to be willing to expend as much effort in finding the right prop as I do. We hope to be able to help you get the best prop we can for your particular uses, and this information is required to do that. There are other people who can help you that don?t need this much information, if you would rather wait for them just don?t fill out the information I am requesting.
It is not as simple to pick the right prop as most people coming to this forum think it is, that is why we ask so many questions, it is for your benefit we ask all these questions. And if you have a stainless steel prop or are changing to one the blade geometry of the prop can make a lot of difference in speed, RPM and the handling characteristics of the boat. Most of my calculations are done assuming an aluminum 3 bladed prop will be used, when changing to a SS or 4 blade prop, or changing within SS props we need to discuss what you are trying to accomplish.

Iboats Boat and Motor Info
1. Year, make and model of boat
2. Length, width and base weight of boat, look for boat decal on back of boat
2a.What is the recommended HP for your boat
3. Number of people and gallons of gas normally on boat
4. What do you use the boat for
5. Is it a Deep Vee and if so how many degrees of deadrise
6. Year, make and model of motor
7. HP and gear ratio of motor IMPORTANT
7A If you have a mercruiser and don?t know the ratio get your serial off the outdrive and go here http://www.sterndrives.com/mercruisersterndrives.html
8. Manufacturer?s recommended Wide Open Throttle (WOT) range
9. Anti-ventilation Plate height above keel of boat if it is an outboard in inches
10. Is it a bass boat or does it have a pad bottom
11. Does it have a hydrafoil, dolefin or trim tabs
12. Make, model, diameter, pitch and whether SS or aluminum prop
13. WOT RPM and speed from your current prop and how much gas and how many people were in the boat for the test data and is the speed by GPS. If you do not have a tach you can buy a Tiny Tach for $ 50
14. Are you at sea level or a higher elevation, give us the elevation in feet
15. Has your motor been tuned up lately and have you checked that the carburetor butterfly is opening all the way, checked compression, and looked at the plugs and checked spark, all of the forgoing could be the reason your prop is not attaining full RPM
16. How long has this prop been on the boat and why, at this time, do you think it is the wrong prop
17. Does the prop show any damage that you can see
18. What problems are you trying to cure or what are you looking for the boat to do that it is not doing the way you think it should or to your expectations

REMEMBER, The numbers I give you will be NO better than the information you give me

The only thing I ask of you is to come back and give me a report of WOT RPM and speed for my database.

H
 

MikDee

Banned
Joined
Jun 6, 2007
Messages
4,745
Re: Help! I think my head 's Exploding!

It sounds like a case for Trim tabs, or Smart tabs! ;)
 

joemamma

Cadet
Joined
Jul 25, 2009
Messages
23
Re: Help! I think my head 's Exploding!

OK,
1992 23'mariah
265hp 5.8 omc i/o cobradrive eng 3 years old. 95lbs of compression in all 8 cylinders.
the eng is in tune and will achieve 4400 rpm at WOT.
Boat weighs 5500 lbs. empty
40 gals fuel cap (320 lbs. full)
Boat will make 32 mph by gps at 4400 rpm
I have 14'' insta trim tabs and I know how to use them.
The boat is in the greatsouth bay of long island so it's usually operated in less than 5 feet of water. it's at sea level.
When windy the bay can be really choppy. running at WOT is suicide.
Ineed the boat to stay on plane with the bow down to keep my dental work in place.
I need to replace the prop I have damaged blades not severe but enough to replace and I want to solve problems.
Thanks joe
 

hwsiii

Commander
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Messages
2,639
Re: Help! I think my head 's Exploding!

Joe, could you make sure the boat is 5,500 pounds, I show a base weight of 3,900 pounds and 5,500 pounds is very heavy for a 23' boat. My formulas work off numbers, so when the numbers are wrong my results are.


H
 

hwsiii

Commander
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Messages
2,639
Re: Help! I think my head 's Exploding!

Don't worry about it.


H
 

joemamma

Cadet
Joined
Jul 25, 2009
Messages
23
Re: Help! I think my head 's Exploding!

I'm not sure of the weight I'll have to go down to the dock and find out! the boat is moored
 

joemamma

Cadet
Joined
Jul 25, 2009
Messages
23
Re: Help! I think my head 's Exploding!

could'nt find a weight on anything, 3900 is probably right. 1992 mariah 235 zc
the prop I just pulled is a michigan 3 blade 15.25 X 15
thanks
 

hwsiii

Commander
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Messages
2,639
Re: Help! I think my head 's Exploding!

Joe, you may be right on the weight, because if I use 5,500 pounds and a 1.41:1 gear ratio I come up with the 15" prop pitch you are using now,but I show you ought to be able to do about 38 MPH with 1 person on board. Please verify the gear ratio.
I am showing your prop slip to be 28% right now and that is high, if we can get it down to 14% you will be doing 38 MPH at 4,400 RPM.

Prop Slip

joemammaPropSlip.jpg



H
 

joemamma

Cadet
Joined
Jul 25, 2009
Messages
23
Re: Help! I think my head 's Exploding!

I'm not concerned with top speed I'm rarely there because of sea conditions.
choppy seas arent as predictable as timed waves. I need to be able to stay on plane at about 3000 rpm with the current setup. maybe going down an inch on pitch to a 14" or going to a 4 blade equivelant. The hull seems to like 3200 rpm in chop I would like more torque at a midrange power setting. If I was alone I just put the hammer down and skim the waves but I'm not so I have to be consceince on ride comfort.
joe
 

hwsiii

Commander
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Messages
2,639
Re: Help! I think my head 's Exploding!

Do you want aluminum or stainless steel.


H
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: Help! I think my head 's Exploding!

You need a prop, so obviously hwsiii's help is great, but . . . dude, like wow, if you have stated your concern correctly, you need some sort of trim tabs as Mik suggested.
 

Dhadley

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Feb 4, 2001
Messages
16,978
Re: Help! I think my head 's Exploding!

There are sterndrive specific props and 4 blade props with stern lift which should help your issue. Getting more torque from a Ford / Cobra may be an issue. The drives are great but that motor wasn't known for torque. I agree that tabs may help but a stern lifting 4 blade may be the place to start.
 

hwsiii

Commander
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Messages
2,639
Re: Help! I think my head 's Exploding!

He already has trim tabs. LOL Tell me he doesn't have a problem. LOL


H
 

joemamma

Cadet
Joined
Jul 25, 2009
Messages
23
Re: Help! I think my head 's Exploding!

hey guys,
I talked to a guy in a prop repair shop. explained exactly the same thing , he recommended vortex 4 blade 15X16 said if I did'nt like it hed exchange until I was happy. 20 mins. later I'm on the bay.
Man what a difference! I've had this boat since new and the wrong prop was always on it. The boat leaps out of the water , at WOT 4200 rpm I'm at 37 mph/gps in a head wind on chop and I can pull it back to 2600 rpm without falling off plane. The boat handles better docking and no vibration at all.
I like this prop alot!
Just a quick lesson guys , Trim tabs are just that there for trim and adding extra lift in choppy seas . not to make up for preformance deficts. Tabs down = drag = fuel consumption.
Cheers
Joe
 

hwsiii

Commander
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Messages
2,639
Re: Help! I think my head 's Exploding!

Joe, if you look in the posts above, you will notice Dhadley already said that you needed a 4 blade prop. And I had told you how high your prop slip was, beause you didnt have enough blade surface area.


H
 
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