HELP- Need advice on 1988 FORCE 125hp

[jsdiii]

Put my 18.5' Bayliner center console in the water last weekend and fired it up. Engine was wintereized as I have done for the past 3 years I have owned it and it was running great. Engine is a 1988 vintage. Boat was unusually slow to plane out and idling /running rough. I suspected it was only running on 3 cylinders. Left it at the marina for mechanic to look at (he was a Force dealer in the past) and he confirmed that it was not firing #3 cylinder. He suggested we replace "all three ignition components". Stator was mentioned, but not sure what the other two were. Price to repair and replace impeller (w/my part) was $2000. He said he could probably get it done for $1700-$1800. He said other than that it looked fine. Compression was 120lbs in all 4 cylinders. Not sure if I should have it done. I like the boat, but don't think I would iinvest $10K in another new outboard for this boat. Could I buy the parts and repair myself (I pretty mechanically inclined). What are the other two likey ignition parts and iwould it be possible to do this repair myself? HELP! ADVICE!

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: HELP- Need advice on 1988 FORCE 125hp

With a simple 5 dollar VOM available at harbor freight, you can test the stator, triggers, and coils. The CD box is another story. However, if you test the other three components and find them OK, the by process of elimination it is a bad CD box. At any rate, you could replace the whole ignition system for half what the marina is quoting you. AND, most likely it will only be one component that is bad. So, worst case is 1000 bucks, best case a couple of hundred.

You could also consider looking for a junk engine that has melted pistons for sale cheap and salvage ignition parts from it.

At any rate, 2000 dollars is about what they charge to replace a block with a rebuilt, so yes, the marina is asking too much

 

[pnwboat]

Re: HELP- Need advice on 1988 FORCE 125hp

$1700 - $1800 to fix the ignition system......He must be very proud of his work! I vote do it yourself.

 

[jsdiii]

Re: HELP- Need advice on 1988 FORCE 125hp

Yesterday I found a possible replacement engine that is 10 years newer for $1050. It's a 1997 model that was used only in freshwater. Owner says it has new impeller, lower unit oil and has very good compressionin on all 4 cylinders ...., and includes an additional parts motor. Perhaps I can use parts off of that to repair existing motor and sell it for a couple hundred bucks.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: HELP- Need advice on 1988 FORCE 125hp

97 parts, most won't interchange with the 88 Different electrical and lower unit.T@T different too.
The guy who quoted you $2000 must not have been a good Force mechanic as he was just throwing ALL the parts at the motor and hoping it MIGHT fix the problem.Go somplace different!!!
Get a manual(factory)Good test meter.Then you can do it all your self.
I'd buy that other set up NOW!!!
You can get the parts on e-bay to fix your old one.After you diagnose it. It might cost $100-300.
Sell it and install the new.Keep the new parts motor.J

Outboardignition.com They have the procedures for testing the electrical system.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: HELP- Need advice on 1988 FORCE 125hp

Agree totally with Jerry! 1000 for a 97 is a decent buy even without extra parts. You will also find that it is more powerful than the engine you now have AND there is a better selection of propellers.

Like jerry said, Buy it NOW! But be certain you get the control box since the control cables are Mercury and your box will not work with the newer engine.

 

[forceproblem]

Re: HELP- Need advice on 1988 FORCE 125hp

with a manual and this forum i think you will be able to easily fix the problem with your old one. i bet you will wait longer for the parts then you would fixing the problem. if you feel like spending more buy the newer motor for spare. what is good compression, actual numbers are important learned that one the hard way good luck either way

 

[jsdiii]

Re: HELP- Need advice on 1988 FORCE 125hp

Well, The 97' motor had already sold. So now I am back to repairing the 1987 Force. I'll buy a book and see if I can figure out what ignition part is the culprit, buy some used parts off of Ebay and see what happens. I am guessing that it is the stator, trigger or cd module. My question is- If the stator is not working wouldn't the other three cylinders be not firing too?

Thanks for all the advice and help thus far. Hopefully, I will have >$1000 in my pocket that wouldn't have been otherwise.

 

[jsdiii]

Re: HELP- Need advice on 1988 FORCE 125hp

Here we go again... Bought new stator, trigger and coil and replaced on engine. It now runs smoothly at idle but only has limited powerat wot. Now I am thinking the cd module might be bad, any ideas?

 

[pnwboat]

Re: HELP- Need advice on 1988 FORCE 125hp

If I were you, I would first perform a compression check if you haven't already done so. Second thing would be to verify that you have an ignition problem by checking the spark. You can use an ignition spark tester like this,

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0042KJV9U/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_3?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B0014WDFLY&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=19EE3KQXA01BG2C3E6TAhttp://

or with the motor at an idle, pull each spark plug off one at a time and see if the motor decreases in idle speed. If you have a wire that you pull off that has no affect on the idle speed, it may indicate that that cylinder is not working correctly. Make a note of that cylinder. Next thing is to swap the CD modules around. Do the idle test again. If the problem moves to a different cylinder, then yes I would suspect a bad CD module. NOTE, mark the wires on the CD Modules very carefully before you disconnect them.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: HELP- Need advice on 1988 FORCE 125hp

It would have cost way less to buy a cheap Volt-Ohmmeter (VOM) and test the components before buying others. The stator will either have resistance (ohms) or not. If it has either 0 ohms or infinite ohms, it is bad. Same for each trigger and same for primary and secondary sides of the coils.
Then, we check each set of wires to see if there are visible breaks or poor (or missing) grounds.

Once you test these components, the only thing left to be bad is the CD box.

If we use a little logic in troubleshooting, we save money and time. Anyone can just throw parts and money at an engine and get lucky.

 

[jsdiii]

Re: HELP- Need advice on 1988 FORCE 125hp

O.K., so I did go back and check the stator resistance. It had no resistance between one set of blue and yellow wires, so I am assuming that was at least partly responsible. the trigger and coil were O.K. But I still have low RPM and poor idle.

My next plan of attack is:
1)Double check all wiring
2) Check for spark using the handy new spark checker you guys reccomended.
3) If no spark on a cylinder I sill reverse the cd module wiring to see if the bad cyclinder moves.
....... If it moves I assume I will replace the module.
........If not I gues I start looking ay carburators orwhay else?

I must take a moment and thank everyone for the advice given here. I must admit I was ready to throw in the towell and repower or buy another boat package, but I keep reminding myself that the engine was running flawlessly when I winterrized it and it does run now,just not pulling the rpm's I need and compression is 125lbs (+/- 1 lbs/psi in each cylinder). So, I still think she has some life left in her. I t is diffficult when the boat is 1.5 hours away and I only get a chance to work onit every few weeks.

 

[Netjunky]

Re: HELP- Need advice on 1988 FORCE 125hp

I had the same problem on my 1990 120HP force outboard. Bogged out at wot, groaning & losing power. I found I had to clean the connectors (black plastic male/female single wire snap connector) behind each coil pack to get it going smooth again, then it would do it again after awhile. I found a complete set of 4 coils with CDI's off ebay (great deal $140) and that solved it. After replacing the set and checking the old one out I found a wire not crimped into clip properly. It was one that is on the strip of screws connecting the stators wires, coil wires & CDI units. I would check all those, cleaning the connections & tightening the slot screws and try cleaning those connectors behind the coils then applying diaelectric grease on each one. I used a small, rolled up piece of sandpaper to clean them. Good luck!

 

[jsdiii]

May the FORCE be with you!

May the FORCE be with you!

Thanks You, Thank You, Thank You!

I decided to have another go at the repair! After some testing I found the coil on the #2 cylinder to be faulty and the rechecking all wire terminals and connections I found the wires from the ignition module that provides spark for the #1 and 2 cylinders were reversed. Either the marine mechanic failed to hook them back up corrrectly or they have been that way for a while. Purchased a coil from the mechanic for way too much ($110, 3 times what I paid for the firsst new coil from CDI) and installed it. Fired her up and after adjusting the timing and idle she purrs like never before! took her out for a test ride and it now runs flawlessly.

I am so thankful for all of the advice and encouragement. I was so close to buying another boat or motor last week, but something in me decided to give it one more chance!

Now... if I could just fix that tilt leakdown! I will search the forum for some advice!

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: May the FORCE be with you!

Re: May the FORCE be with you!

If the tilt leaks down.You can mess with it like you did the electrical system.Or buy new$300+
Or you can send it to RRITT.He rebuilds them.
E-bay site# 220779892902 Try here.
Get a factory manual for that motor and test the pump and rams.Very simple tests.J

 

[jsdiii]

Re: May the FORCE be with you!

Re: May the FORCE be with you!

UPDATE!
After repair I ran the boat for 3-4 hours last weekendf and it ran great. Came in and dropped off the kids and went bacl out to meet trailer at marina, and I have the same symptoms (ppor power and ltd RPM's. Feels like running on 3 cylinders again. This time #4 cylinder not firing. I figured might as well replace the last two coils as they must be pooping out from age. This weekend I put in the new CDI coils and I still have same issue! Boat will get on plane, but will not give more than 3200 rpm's. What is the story? Could a faulty ignition module be causing this?

 

[erosenwinkel]

Re: May the FORCE be with you!

Re: May the FORCE be with you!

Fixed my 85 125hp tilt leak down with $8.00 in o-rings (had to buy more than what I needed, now I have spares) and a quart of hydraulic fluid. 45 minutes and I am not a hard worker. Easy if it is the center tilt cylinder. 4 o-rings. 3/8 wrench and 5 new stainless steel 1/4 x 20 x 1.75 bolts. Thanks Rritt for the help!