HELP!! regarding service costs

[kopy kat]

I really need some help from someone that can quote the Mercury Flat Rate for both removing and installing the heads on my '99 350---also removing and reinstalling my Alpha 1 drive to replace the impeller.<br /><br />I've finally recieved a bill for service performed last summer, and they are trying to charge me for 28 hours labor and $1500 for the impeller and two new Vortex heads (I know the heads run about $300-350 each).<br /><br />Thanks in advance for any help--and no, they never did give me a written estimate, just did the work. If I'm screwed-it's a lesson--but advice will certainly be accepted. Larry

 

[Walt T]

Re: HELP!! regarding service costs

I think its around 8-11 hours, but a lot depends on the type of boat. 28 hours to replace two heads and an impeller, I'd say you got screwed.

 

[J.J.W]

Re: HELP!! regarding service costs

Mercury sets the flat rate at about 9 hours for the head swap. The heads from mercury retail at about 640 each. The impeller job should have been no more than two hours if they removed the drive and checked all the bellows and gimble bearing. I would say no more than 12 hours max for the whole job.<br />Justin<br />justin@sterndrive.cc

 

[rodbolt]

Re: HELP!! regarding service costs

hello<br /> before ya get all giggy has the boat ever seen salt water? can you actually get to the engine or is 5 or 6 hours set for removing and reinstalling and cleaning the interior? how about any machine work on the heads? last 3.0 I bought was a bare casting and had to make a trip to the machine shop.was any shaft alignment work done? how about any labor for pressure testing exhaust manifolds or intake manifolds? ya cant just say well its a car motor and I can do a car motor in 2 hours. merc also says I can change the high pressure pump on the stbd engine of a pair of 5.7MPI's in a 2001 carolina classic in get this, they say 1.5 hours, but it aint gonna happen. it will take at least 8 hours to remove the inboard manifolds and risers and the stbd front mount and then guess what sports fans? I get to do shaft alignment cause its an inboard. now this customer is whining that the part is a warrenty. merc says they will pay 1.5 hours. who pays me the rest?<br /> some one will or the boat will dry rot. <br />28 hours seems awful high but without seeing you bill or knowing why the heads were bad and what trouble shooting or seatrials went on Its hard to say. so before ya go slammin the tech, post what really really happened and why did it need heads to start with? I mean its like me saying my sons dentist charged 4964.00 and I failed to add that he got braces as well<br /> could the problem really really started due to lack of maint?<br /> good luck and keep posting

 

[denniz]

Re: HELP!! regarding service costs

I agree with RODBOLT, 28hrs sounds extremely high, but were only hearing one side of the story. Heads dont just fail.(id sold you a set alot cheaper)ANYway. WHY did it get torn down?

 

[kopy kat]

Re: HELP!! regarding service costs

The boat is only used in Lake Tahoe--you can't find any fresher or cleaner water. The previous year, the heads went out due to a suspected bad water impeller. This year, they went out due to the previous shop installing the lower end with the connecting tube to the upper drive out of alignment, so that when I hit high revs (over 4,000 rpm) I apparently sucked air as well as water--thus bringing the temp up suddenly and cracking the heads. This by the way only happened once (the high revs and temp part). This is a 21 ft SeaRay BR--easy access to the whole engine. Did I mention that they had my boat from August 16 unitl the day before Thanksgiving? Also, the tech installed the new heads with the old head bolts, when I asked for new ones to be used (fear of bolt stretch). As I said, I would appreciate it if anyone could quote me verbatum from the Mercury manual as to flat rate time. I intend to pay a fair amount-but I feel 28 hours is really out of line.

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: HELP!! regarding service costs

When Merc sets warranty flat rates, a group of executroids sits around a table and puts their heads together to come up with what they feel they are willing to pay for a given job. The Real World never enters the equation. Nobody that actually works on them is ever asked their opinion. They consider the motor to be 100% accessible and the motor is clean, new, and not corroded. They don't take into account that the boat maker never ever makes it so that the motor is 100% accessible. They also assume the motor is right in front of you, ready to be worked on. Hauling the boat out or moving it around isn't included either. And neither is clean-up. So in your case, warranty flat rate is a poor guess at best. It'll always come up considerably short. 28 hours sounds extreme, but there are a lot of factors that affect the end result that just aren't addressed in a warranty flat rate.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: HELP!! regarding service costs

hello<br /> due you mean there have been 2 sets of heads on the boat? how much were the first set and how many hours? you cannot get the water tube (partly alignd) you either have it right or crush the tube and it gets hot all the time at all rpm's. something does not sound right with your description or the shops are pulling your leg. thetemp cant just come up that quick. no way no how. the alarm,if properly maintained will tell you its getting hot long before heads crack. cracked heads can be caused by things other than over heat or may have been missed from the first repair. <br /> gather as much info on what happened and why or odds are it will do it again.<br /> good luck and keep posting

 

[Ryoken]

Re: HELP!! regarding service costs

i would tend to agree with Rodbolt on this one...<br /><br /> also those $350 to $400 #'s are for bare castings more than likely... more labor right there swapping over... also recommended retail and what someone can actually find the stuff for are 2 different things. an example i use is Micron bottom paint, the markup was so high, i felt guilty charging customers that much and would knock it down.. now, i have a conscience, alot of places don't..<br /><br />the hours do seem somewhat high.. i normally charge 25 to 30 for a long block swapout, changing accesories over, etc so that # does seem a little out of line. but unless i knew exactly what was involved in that particular job, i couldn't say you where ripped...

 

[denniz]

Re: HELP!! regarding service costs

OK so youve been severly overheated to the point you had to replace the heads.... THATS HOT I change a short block in less then 10hrs. I charge 24hrs.(most people charge more)[im fast].were these heads cracked? Did you overheat again? Voertec heads are worth$$$$$$$ if your machine shop says there cracked get them back just so you will know you werent ripped off.

 

[seahorse5]

Re: HELP!! regarding service costs

Factory flat rates for warranty work are done on a motor stand, not in a boat. A small allowance is made for actual boats, such as with a starter replacement. On a stand, you can take one off and put it back on in 15 minutes. In most boats, it takes about an hour.<br /><br />If you check with an auto dealer, he uses two flat rate guides. One is what the manufacturer will pay for warranty repairs, and the other one, by Mitchell, Chilton, Motors, etc., is what it takes in the real world to do a repair.<br /><br />In the marine field, Spader and Sierra have flat rate guides that are more in line with actuall work time.<br /><br />Stern drives and some inboards have a whole 'nother set of problems with access to the parts. Some boats glass bulkheads along side the motor and you can't even get the exhaust manifolds off without cutting up the boat, or removing the engine.<br /><br />On the outboard side of things, factory flat rate for replacing all the valves in a 4-stroke Yamaha V6 is over 13 hours.

 

[kopy kat]

Re: HELP!! regarding service costs

ok-here's the conditions: enough room to move around the engine and remove-install parts with no problem. The heads came from a local Reno machine shop-not Mercury oem heads-but supposed to be new heads?! The engine is clean-spotless-about 135 total hours. The water tube was partially deformed at the top-which is what led the tech to say that it was "missaligned" or installed wrong. it would still carry water to cool at low speed. I seldom go much over 3500 rpm as at 6200 ft altitude, high rpms sucks gas very fast. As I said, I'll pay a fair price-the first set of head replacements at 90 hours cost a total of $1300 at 8 hours. That was done in November of 2002. I waited until spring startup 2003 to have the impeller repaced, so that it would be fresh--and that's when the lower unit was installed wrong (they also busted the plastic hookup for the speedo tube when they put the lower end back on). I think we need a good, honest shop here in the Reno-Lake tahoe area!

 

[BRIAN03]

Re: HELP!! regarding service costs

There is retail and warranty flat rate. If you dont have to stand on your head. Flat rate retail 2.0 hours water pump. 1.0 drive on and off. Heads on off 10.0 max. Those heads come off that engine in 20 minutes. The only extra time would be if the engine is fresh water cooled. Total retail flat rate. 13.0 hrs. My question is why did the heads come off. Rusted valve train?

 

[Walt T]

Re: HELP!! regarding service costs

KopyKat you got screwed big time and are continuing to be screwed if you use them. Shame on that shop. Makes the decent guys trying to earn an honest living look bad.