Hey electrical gurus....

3boyzz · Oct 15, 2003

I'm starting to plan my wiring for my 1976 26" Cabin Cruiser I just bought. It has a year old 1750 watt inverter in it and the rest is all original wiring, plus all the extra mess that the previous diyer owner put on it. It has shorepower and a very outdated 110/12v converter that powers one outlet, the fridge and hot water heater. I already bought a new Guest 60 amp, two bank charger (for $20.00!!!

) and I want to redo the entire 12 volt system as well as add a couple more 110 options. So my question is, where is the best place to buy ac/dc panels and breakers, as well as other supplies? What would you suggest with the chance to start all over? What would you do and not do? I like the bluewater panels, but not the price!!! Has anyone made their own panels with a plastic or aluminum plate and installed the switches and fuse holders themselves. That is what I'm leaning towards. I like the idea of putting the switches how I want them and being able to install my choice of meters as well. I was thinking of using the tube shaped fuse holders that u can unscrew the cap from outside to check the fuse and mount them next to each switch. Thanks for any suggestions or info in advance.

airman · Oct 15, 2003

Re: Hey electrical gurus....

I did the fuses and switches idea, it worked well for me. I had a custom panel made up at an engraving shop. They engraved all the labels and cut the holes too. Fits perfect and comparatively cheap. I used the Ancor stuff and was happy with it. I suggest you buy their double crimp ratcheting crimper or something similar. I wouldn't use their double crimp butt connectors again (price). Now I just get the single crimp style and add heat shrink. See if you can find who the local wholesaler is (Western around here.) They likely won't sell to you but you may be able to get the Blue Sea or Ancor cataloges which are very helpful. Draw a schematic.

Boatin Bob · Oct 16, 2003

Re: Hey electrical gurus....

That's a heck of a deal you got on the charger! Most of my boat is breakers except for some reason they put a small panel in the head with switches and fuses, these fuse holders are the round black ones that are like a bayonet style, push in and turn. Over the years I've had to replace about 4 of them on a 3 fuse panel because the vibration over time seems to weaken the little tabs and then the top comes off and the spring loaded fuse pops out. Not a big deal in the head but I wouldn't want it on my main panel so I recommend breakers.

Ralph 123 · Oct 16, 2003

Re: Hey electrical gurus....

I redid my 79 Formula from scratch and found the best place for supplies to be eBay. You can spend the winter collecting and planning and start in the spring. I hate fuses so I only used sealed marine push-button type breakers located right above sealed. lighted, rocker switches. You can buy whole panels wired (breakers and swithces) and then either install the whole panel or make your own. You can usually buy them from sellers of boat builder's surplus. Spend some time on Ancor Marine's web site and read through their technical info. It will help you with planning, standards and techniques. You can also find whole harnesses on eBay. Rather than making your own harness that runs from the engine(s) to the console, you can buy a surpuls one all properly color coded and connectors installed. You can also buy surplus gauge panels for a lot less than you can buy individual gauges. Most are already wired. Again, you can mount the whole panel or disassemble and mount in your own. Be sure to only use good high quality marine grade wire and terminals (don't use stuff made for autos). I really like Ancor's 2-conductor "safety" wire.

dixie420 · Oct 16, 2003

Re: Hey electrical gurus....

ok this is just my opinion, but i think the breakers pay for themselves over time. that and the first time your out there without a spare fuse you will wish you had some breakers. not only that, fuses add another connection tho corrode or wear out that breakers have an advantage on. as for connectors, i solder and heatshrink most of my wiring. sometimes its not feesable and connectors are the better choice. auto part stores and radio shack can help you out with some really durable waterproof stuff they may not carry on the shelf.

Ralph 123 · Oct 17, 2003

Re: Hey electrical gurus....

You can solder as long as you crimp as well. The ABYC codes require you to not rely on solder connections as the sole means of mechanical connection. You can crimp You can crimp and solder You can not just solder. You can buy Ancor marine shrink which is adhesive lined and makes great waterproof connecions or you can use regular shrink with some silicone spread underneath and achieve the same results. If you use good marine grade wire each strand of the wire is tinned to help prevent corrosion. Note that SAE wire gauage (auto) is smaller than AWG wire grade. So an AWG 14 is bigger than an SAE 14

3boyzz · Oct 17, 2003

Re: Hey electrical gurus....

Thanks guys, it's all extremely helpful. I've wired a complete house before, but have no knowledge of boat wiring. Thanks again, I appreciate it!!

airman · Oct 17, 2003

Re: Hey electrical gurus....

Ralph, I know that you got into a long squabble over this before but it seems to me that the suggestion of soldering and heatshrink should be acceptable. The heatshrink provides a 2nd level of mechanical connection. I personally prefer crimping but I don't think the standard is attempting to say that all connections must have a crimped connection. For example, many connector plugs use solder only for the electrical connection. The mechanical support is provided by a clamp integral to the plug.

Ralph 123 · Oct 17, 2003

Re: Hey electrical gurus....

Judge for your self: Solder shall not be the sole means of the mechanical connection in any circuit. Exception: Battery lugs with a solder contact length of not less than 1.5 times the diameter of the conductor (E9.16.K8) I have never heard of nor would I rely on flexible, thin, rubbery shrink tubing for a mechanical connection in a harsh, hi G, constant vibration envoronment like a boat. A clamp is fine however, how many situations on a boat does that apply? None that I have seen. Typically even in shelled connectors, the wires are crimped to the terminals and the terminals then inserted into the shell. There are some shells there the wires are soldered into the terminals in the shell then jacket and clamped but I haven't seen many of those on a boat. Since they do exist it explains why the code does not mandate crimping. The thing I find so funny is that crimping, with a good double ratching cripmer and quality insulated connectors is easier than using non insulated connectors, soldering and heat shrinking. And I know you know, 80% of the people who think they know how to solder, really don't know how to do it well enough for the marine environment. How many cold joints and voids is the non-electronics pro going to have in the hundred of connections needed when re-wiring a boat?

Ralph 123 · Oct 17, 2003

Re: Hey electrical gurus....

Wiring connections shall be designed and installed to make mechanical and electrical joints without damage to the conductors (E8&9). Ring and captive-spade type terminal connectors should be the same nominal size as the stud (E8&9). Twist-on connectors (wire nuts) shall not be used (E8&9). Metals used for the terminal studs should be corrosion resistant and galvanically compatible with the conductor and terminal lug (E8&9). Solder shall not be the sole means of the mechanical connection in any circuit. Exception: Battery lugs with a solder contact length of not less than 1.5 times the diameter of the conductor (E9.16.K8) If conductors must be routed in the bilge or other areas where water may accumulate, the wiring and connections shall be watertight (E8&9). All connections shall be in locations protected from the weather or in weatherproof enclosures, or shall be weathertight. If connections are exposed to immersion thay shall be watertight (E8&9). Conductors shall be supported throughout their length or, alternatively shall be secured at least every 18 inches (E8&9). Solderless crimp-on connectors shall be attached with the type of crimping tools designed for the connector used and which will produce a connection meeting the requirements of ABYC (E8.15.14 and E9.15.K4).

agaupt1 · Mar 17, 2010

Re: Hey electrical gurus....

airman said:
I did the fuses and switches idea, it worked well for me. I had a custom panel made up at an engraving shop. They engraved all the labels and cut the holes too. Fits perfect and comparatively cheap. I used the Ancor stuff and was happy with it. I suggest you buy their double crimp ratcheting crimper or something similar. I wouldn't use their double crimp butt connectors again (price). Now I just get the single crimp style and add heat shrink. See if you can find who the local wholesaler is (Western around here.) They likely won't sell to you but you may be able to get the Blue Sea or Ancor cataloges which are very helpful. Draw a schematic.

I am new to the forum and am having trouble getting around and it seems as if I may be close to identifying the right persons to help me. I have a 1986 242SF, Formula and am trying to determine if teh electrical sytem is a 12 or 24VDC system. Does anyone know where I would find the correct information about the electrical specifications of this boat? I was going to replace 2 of teh courtsey lights in the rear deck area and the voltmeter told me that I was getting 24 VDC. This does not seem correct. Maybe someone wired the batteries in incorrectly. Does anyone have any ideas?

ezmobee · Mar 18, 2010

Re: Hey electrical gurus....

Welcome to iboats agaupt1. Your best bet is to post up a new thread in the electrical forum instead of digging up this old thread. Good luck!

Hey electrical gurus....

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