hole in keel

[inthedirtagain]

Went out on the water Saturday tubing and skiing with the family. The boat was in the water for a total of 5hrs, and was taking on water the whole time. When I pulled the boat out, my son noticed a good pee stream coming from the center of the boat. At first, I thought it was just the trailer draining water out of the center frame rail. When I looked underneath it, this is what I found:



This is a closed keel (no opening at the back), so I'm guessing that I took on a lot of water. I pulled the plug to drain everything once I got back to the house and the amount of water was astonishing. I didn't get a bucket underneath it, but it took over 30min to completely drain. Now that I think about it, the boat was acting more sluggish as the day wore on, and this would be a major contributor. Now I just have to seal it up and finish wiring up my bilge pump. It appears to be a missing rivet, because the hole is perfectly round. What do I need to seal this up? Can I use another rivet with silicon or 5200? If so, I have no idea how long it takes for 5200 to fully cure. Thanks for the help.

 

[jasoutside]

Re: hole in keel

Actually that hole is supposed to be there to drain the keel.

Sounds like you've got leaks elsewhere, eh?

 

[Starman8]

Re: hole in keel

Some questions and comments:

Is this your first voyage, or the first time it ever leaked on you?

Shouldn't be a rivet hole because that hollow area in the center is not where the keelstrip is meant to be attached.

I have seen a few mid-70's with a "drain hole" in that area, seems factory.

I asked if it was your maiden voyage because the hull should be one-piece and your breach
may be elsewhere, meaning this:

The force or pressure when moving may push the water upward into the actual side rivets channels that attach the keelstrip. In other words, something else gave way.

As far as the fix, I can suggest one but will wait for your response

 

[inthedirtagain]

Re: hole in keel

I've had the boat for only 2 weeks, and this is my 4th time taking it out. I have an 8in drop on my tow hitch to keep the front of the trailer low. I do this because of the weight of the outboard. This means that any water in the boat will stay there until I get home and can raise the tongue when parked. Over the last 2 weeks, I may not have raised the tongue high enough to empty water out after my previous trips. When looking under the boat, I can see that someone has smeared silicon over many of the existing rivets. I can only assume that the hull has some leaks. If the hole in the keel is meant to be factory, I can't imagine why it would be there without another outlet. What is the purpose of filling a keel with water if the hull is supposed to be sealed?

I've heard of putting a foot of water in the boat and looking for leaks, but I really don't want to do this with a solid floor. Wouldn't that be bad for the flooring? The last boat that I owned was a smaller alum w/tiller. I never had a single problem with leaks on that boat, but it also was considerably smaller with only a small trolling motor. What is the general rule about running a bilge? Are they meant to run all the time?

 

[jasoutside]

Re: hole in keel

Yah, if you have silicone schmeered all over from the PO he was likely trying to find the leaky rivets.

It will be a little tough to find those bad apples in the bunch without having the deck off, the boat gutted and a leak test completed.

If the hole in the keel is meant to be factory, I can't imagine why it would be there without another outlet.

This is confusing to me too. What's more confusing is that the drain hole is at the bow end. Any smart boater knows to store the bow high and the plug out to drain any water. So how is the keel supposed to drain? Beats me.

So here is what I did for right, wrong or otherwise, drilled a drain hole at the stern end so it will drain. Makes sense to me anyway.

What is the purpose of filling a keel with water if the hull is supposed to be sealed?

That keel is actually not made to be water tight.



Sounds to me like you have some major leakage and some detective work is in order.

 

[Starman8]

Re: hole in keel

I would consider pulling your plug when you retrieve from a day on the water after you exit the ramp.

The keel strip filling when on the water is normally no big deal, as Starcraft will tell you that any trapped water over the winter can freeze and cause major issues, hence the drain. On later models, of which I had a 2000, they had the back of the keelstrip open.

The problem probably is loose rivets that attach the keelstrip and when water enters the strip while on the water, it seeps up in the voids/rivets channels. I had this issue on the 2000 model I owned.

This is a suggestion, not advice, and it worked in my case, but I assume you will not pull the floor and do an exterior fix versus both inside and out.

Temporarily plug that drain hole with some duct tape and fill the bilge high enough to fill the centerline of the boat, only enough so your floor stays dry. Use a green or red food coloring. When/IF the water first fills the keelstrip the remaining water should then seek to exit from the longnitudinal row of rivets that attach the strip. Watch for leaks, Also periodically change the angle of the boat to move the water around.

If you detect no leaks, then remove the duct tape and see if water drains from the drain hole. You hope it is dry, sort of, but then the breach may be higher up the chines, worst case, where the hull attaches to the sides.

Use just enough water initially to flood the bilge without interior damage.

Here was the fix I did with the knowledge that any freezing material could cause further damage. I filled my entire hollow keelstrip with 7 tubes of silicone that when cures, becomes solid like rubber. Had the boat several times on Lake Erie afterwards pounding 2-4 footers, boat was dry each time.

As far as a bilge, you should have one anyways, I have 2 for redundancy. Get the model that has an on/off switch and a sensor.

By the way, my fix also included a GLUVIT treatment inside and out

 

[inthedirtagain]

Re: hole in keel

This is our family's first play boat and I got it for next to nothing. It will probably not stay in our possession for the next boating season. My wife is already wanting to upgrade to something a newer, with tighter steering and a more stable ride. If the flooring proves easy enough to remove, I'll go ahead and do so. I know that the seats are easily removed, so I'm not worried about them. For peace of mind, I'll probably remove the floor and seal the hull from the inside out. I'm assuming that replacing the flooring/carpeting isn't terribly expensive, so that sounds like a good spring project.

Since it has been sitting up on the stern for the last day and a half, I know that it is dry. I'm tempted to take it out tomorrow just to pull the plug and see how much water comes out. I've got nothing else planned for tomorrow anyways. Thanks for the help.

 

[oops!]

Re: hole in keel

we need more information here.......what model is this boat?...is it the holiday in your sig? ..does it have a deck ....is there foam under the deck....that much water will soak foam and you might be waterlogged....

may i suggest you have this moved up to the dry dock where more will see it

 

[inthedirtagain]

Re: hole in keel

Yes, the boat is the same as my sig. I have no idea what the condition of the hull is like under the flooring, so after my fishing trip tomorrow, I'll pull the plug and see what drains out. Then, I'll drill a few core samples and take a peak underneath. I can tell you that when we got home from the lake on Saturday, I could barely lift the tongue off of my tow hitch, and I'm not what you would considera small guy (6'3, 240lbs). Now that its dry-ish, I can lift the tongue with one finger. It is seriously that light. That is why I trailer the tongue as low as possible. Everyone will be at work or school tomorrow, so I'll be on the water anywhere from 4-7hrs. I better get my bilge wired up first!

 

[starcrafter65]

Re: hole in keel

itda - I would suggest a couple things....if you can lift your tongue with one finger - it is too light - you should adjust the trailer - move the wheels back - to get the weight to 150-200 lbs. Too light= fishtailing trailer = dangerous.

Also = always take your plug out of the stern and let the boat bilge dry out on the way home and while the boat is on the trailer. Wet bilge = long term rot for flooring....

Post some pics!

 

[ezmobee]

Re: hole in keel

My Jupiter was leaky. I stuck a hose in the bilge while the boat was on the trailer in my driveway. Water almost immediately started streaming out of a pin hole leak I had under the knee brace. I put some JB Weld on that and that solved the majority of my leaking. You won't hurt your boat putting couple inches of water in it on the trailer, should be nowhere near the deck wood.

 

[inthedirtagain]

Re: hole in keel

I went out fishing this morning for a good 3hrs on the water before it got too warm out. I caught a 5in bass, if anyone cares to know the truth (a little disappointed!). When I pulled the boat out of the water and pulled the drain plug, there was a good amount of water draining. Nothing to be alarmed about, and certainly enough for my bilge to handle (500 gph). So now that I know how much to expect from running around the lake for 3hrs, I'm not too concerned at this point.

I removed the seats and alum trim pieces holding the carpet down. It was still glued on tight. Then I noticed an oddity......the floorboards were riveted in place. I'm going to assume that the previous owners did not do this, and the boards could possibly be factory. I drilled through a couple of soft spots to get a look at the foam underneath. What is still intact appears to be dry and not water-logged. Thats a good sign, however the foam is begining to crumble apart. I put a hose inside the holes that I made in the floor and put a good amount of water in the hull and started looking for leaks. I found 5 or 6 rivets leaking a fair amount of water. Some had been previously circled and covered with silicon (and still leaking), so this tells me that someone in the past new this hull had a few leaks. This spring, I'll pull the interior out and seal the hull from the inside. Is gluvit recommended over everything else? I'll also replace the flooring and add some indoor/outdoor carpeting. What is in there now is fairly worn out.

Some pics:



Here you can see the crumbles of foam

 

[Starman8]

Re: hole in keel

your bilge will get you thru the season, and the repairs you make will better the boat and improve the interior appearance

the guys on here will tell you, as I will, that doing the hull, new floor, choice of covering(carpet/vinyl) is a pretty easy and fun project.

you will asking about SS screws versus rivets, marine grade versus epoxied, pressure treated(don't) versus regular, 1/2" versus 3/4" and the realignment aspects of that choice, bow modification, etc.etc.

getting a newer boat is nice, but you may be surprised what these tin cans can look like with some effort and a few bucks

Look at some of the pics from my thread 79 SS18 Project

 

[inthedirtagain]

Re: hole in keel

My wife would like a bow rider with a more modern appearance, and I can't say as I blame her. I don't mind the looks of the older boats, in fact, this boat is the same year as my convertible Mustang! I like working on the older stuff, too. I plane on replacing the dash with a more modern appearance, too. Looking at doing it in woodgrain, and painting the boat a silvery-turqouis on the bow and gunwalls, and the hull a metallic graphite color (with O/B to match). It'll will definitely look better when I'm done. I might even look for some more modern seats. If I can get the look I'm after, maybe I can talk her into keeping it. I like the alum boats.

 

[paparoof]

Re: hole in keel

Seems with these old tin cans we all get around to ripping out the floors and replacing them eventually. You may as well get in there and get it done while the existing floor boards can still be used as templates for drawing out the new ones. You'll find it's not at all difficult, it's not even all that expensive.

Here's the short version:

Drill out the rivets to get the old floor up, throw out the existing foam (it'll be gross).
Post pictures.
Clean out the hull - if you have access to a pressure washer it'll actually make this job fun.
Post pictures.
Buck the leaky rivets (do a search here for simple instructions).
Post pictures.
Gluvit the interior of the hull paying special attention to the known leaky spots.
Post pictures.
Install new flotation foam - use either the pink sheet foam from HD, the Blue sheet foam from Lowes or even.... pool noodles :facepalm:
Post pictures.
Cut out new floor sections from marine grade plywood or even exterior grade ply.
Post pictures.
Seal up the new wood using your favorite variety of epoxy or some such. Make sure you goop up the edges really good.
Post pictures.
Rivet or screw the new floor sections to the stringers and ribs.
Post pictures.
Cover the new floor as you wish. Some just paint it, I laid 10 oz glass on top then painted it, some people put vinyl or carpet down.
Post pictures.
Go boating!
Post video.

 

[Starman8]

Re: hole in keel

Understand the bowrider requirement, same here, which is why I chose SS versus Holiday. Look at some of the pics of my bow modification.

paparoof..........................you covered it all, I went ext grade with epoxy, primer, and a few other redundancies, then carpet

check those rivets to choose buckin versus replacing

Since I had lots of Gluvit leftover from my 2000 project, the 79 got the same treatment

Bone DRY

But also keep in mind the points I made about that centerline keelplate

 

[inthedirtagain]

Re: hole in keel

what is the point of bucking leaky rivets when everythings is going to be sealed up with gluvit?

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: hole in keel

what is the point of bucking leaky rivets when everythings is going to be sealed up with gluvit?

because you need the mechanical seal integrity for longevity

 

[inthedirtagain]

Re: hole in keel

I guess that makes sense. I sealed up the inspection holes in the floor today and also finished the install/wiring on the bilge pump. I added water to the bilge area and tested the pump out, too. Running directly off the battery (without motor running), and with tubing that is routed uphill, I was able to fill a gallon jug in exactly 10sec. That equates to 360gal per hour, providing my battery can last that long. Until I get the hull completely sealed, I'll plan on running the bilge every once in awhile just to keep as much water out as I can.

 

[carfix2000ca]

I recently discovered West System Marine epoxy.
Coated all the new pieces of wood I installed including transom and floorboards with the standard epoxy.
Then I discovered how leaky this boat is and have been sealing the Hull with Gflex.
I guess I should have checked before I installed the floor.
My question is.
Can the keel drain hole force a lot of water in? Or is it designed in a way that it can’t? I put about a foot of water in the boat and it drips out pretty steady.