How cold is too cold?

[asdasc]

I have a '59 Johnson HP on a pontoon boat that I use as a barge to get to our cottage. This is my first fall with it and am wondering how late in the season I can continue to use it. Is it safe to assume that if there is no ice on the lake that I am ok? Or should I pull it out at the first sign of frost? The foot of the motor is always in the water. I have been assuming that if the lake isn't frozen that there is no water up higher in the motor and I should be fine. One other item is that there is no thermostat in this engine, and it seems to take much longer to warm up now that the water is colder. Is that ok for the motor?

Thanks in advance!

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: How cold is too cold?

it will take longer, i think the first sign or warning of a freeze, i would pull it. that metal gets colder than the water, and could freeze the water in lower unit.

 

[asdasc]

Re: How cold is too cold?

Is there a difference bween a freeze and a frost? We have already had a couple good frosts. If I can rig it to raise or tilt the foot out of the water, can I run longer into fall? Does it drain enough on its own to be safe?

 

[rjezuit]

Re: How cold is too cold?

The metal may be colder than the water, but it can get no colder than the actual temperature of the air. If it gets a little below freezing for a few hours or less you are okay (like early morning before sun-up). If it's gonna be colder than that longer than that, it has to be out of the water. The warmer water will transfer some heat to the leg, but not up into the powerhead. It takes a lot longer for ice to form on the lake (moving water) than it does in the powerhead. Watch to see how much sooner ice forms in small puddles in the shade than it does in the lake. Probably a few MONTHS difference. We have people running outboards around here well into January on the Niagara River, it stays ice free, but the are raised out of the water on lifts or trailers when not being run. Rick

 

[asdasc]

Re: How cold is too cold?

OK, thanks guys. As you can tell, I want to run it all winter if I could. It sounds like it will drain OK if I can get it out of the water when not in use.

The power head doesn't have any areas that will hold or trap water if the motor is vertical, as far as I can tell. I will see if I can get a decent water temp measurement while out there today. I would guess it is still close to 50F. We were actually in the water last weekend or the one before.

 

[steelespike]

Re: How cold is too cold?

We used to boat into the first weekend of December on the St Lawrence northern New York. Powerhead will drain if in the water and ice forms around the lower you need to thaw with hot water of some sort.If out of the water vertical motor will drain comepletely.I have boated in my 18ft utility when I had to chop ice on the water acumulated in the boat. throw out the chunks and bail. motor was in relatively active water so no problem with freezing.

 

[F_R]

Re: How cold is too cold?

The metal parts below the waterline cannot get colder than the water. But what am I to know, I live in Florida. But the people that make the motors should know. The owner's manuals say to leave the lower unit submerged. There is more than one reason for that...the cooling system may not drain completely when tilted. ESPECIALLY motors with thru the prop hub exhaust. They can hold a big gob of water in the exhaust area forward of the prop when tilted.

Now if the lake freezes around the lower unit, you are sort of stuck aren't you?

 

[rjezuit]

Re: How cold is too cold?

If the lake freezes around the lower unit, you just go slower. Ever hear of icebreakers? If you can get on top of the ice, you can plane at almost 0 MPH. rick

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: How cold is too cold?

God bless the respondents from Fla...and other southern parts :
1) The metal will not get colder than the water, and if anyone in here can make it happpen, they have a lock on the Nobel Prize for Thermodynamics.
2) You are fine if there is no ice on the lake. No ice on the lake, no ice in your lower unit....as long as it is in the lake also.
3) What do other local boaters do? That is probably the most relevent clue to the best course.
4) I run my pontoon with an 8HP into December here near Ottawa, Canada....also to a cottage on an island. One caution, if it is really cold....say less than 20 F. your cooling discharge can get choked with the last trickles after a shutdown....(although you have a 1959 and that has a big exit opening so should not be a problem). You must be really vigilant in checking for cooling discharge after a startup. Once it is pumping, I have never heard of a freezup while operating.

 

[D.spencer]

Re: How cold is too cold?

We used to boat into the first weekend of December on the St Lawrence northern New York. Powerhead will drain if in the water and ice forms around the lower you need to thaw with hot water of some sort.If out of the water vertical motor will drain comepletely.I have boated in my 18ft utility when I had to chop ice on the water acumulated in the boat. throw out the chunks and bail. motor was in relatively active water so no problem with freezing.

That is dedication to boating/fishing. I just hope you were not out skiing/tubing

 

[SnappingTurtle]

Re: How cold is too cold?

So do I understand this correctly.

If the OB motor is out of the water, high and dry, protected from the weather, it doesn't matter how cold it gets.

I don't want to put my boat and motor up for the winter. I want to use it.

Right now, this morning, it is about 34 degrees, it starts up and runs fine.

How cold can it get, and still be OK to run it?

If my car can run at double digit minus temperatures, why can't the little outboard? Frozen water aside.

 

[asdasc]

Re: How cold is too cold?

First off, thank you all for the information! It is most helpful. In fact, the next couple weeks look frost free according to the forecast, so no worries!

3) What do other local boaters do? That is probably the most relevent clue to the best course.

We are in an area of mostly vacation homes, so about Labor Day, most of them winterize and go away until Memorial Day. It is really nice out there having the lake to myself in fall, winter and spring. There are a few duck hunters about, but they all tend to trailer their boats and keep them in garages.

I feel pretty comfortable now leaving the lower unit in the water until the first BIG freeze hits. In fact, with the water flow, I can probably run it until January!

Thanks again.

 

[D.spencer]

Re: How cold is too cold?

So do I understand this correctly.

If the OB motor is out of the water, high and dry, protected from the weather, it doesn't matter how cold it gets. keep in mind that just tilted out of the water doesn't mean its drained thoroughly lots of water gets trapped-it has to be straight up and down to drain thoroughly.

I don't want to put my boat and motor up for the winter. I want to use it. so, use it. Someone there with a gun stoppin ya?

Right now, this morning, it is about 34 degrees, it starts up and runs fine.

How cold can it get, and still be OK to run it? they will run in very cold weather-I would say colder than you could stand to be out in. May have some issues with carburetor "icing" if you don't have a thermostat or one that is improperly functioning (eg-stuck open or open too low temp)

If my car can run at double digit minus temperatures, why can't the little outboard? Frozen water aside.

it can of course the big safety net with automotive engines is there is anti-freeze in them always and if you shut them off- no worries. That is why it is important to make shure the marine engine gets drained every time

 

[Silvertip]

Re: How cold is too cold?

You know it is time to no longer run the engine when the ice on the body of water prevents boat movement. As long as there is water (liquid of course) around the water pump, the engine will warm up and run normally and it will drain properly so long as the motor is left vertical. Geez -- we break ice to go duck hunting up here in the tundra. Yes -- the tell tale can freeze up but that's just the tell tale, the engine will still get cooling water as long as the pump has liquid water to pump. Obviously when you have an inch or more of ice forming without a daytime thaw, that's the sign that perhaps your boating season is over.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: How cold is too cold?

So do I understand this correctly.

1) If the OB motor is out of the water, high and dry, protected from the weather, it doesn't matter how cold it gets.

2) How cold can it get, and still be OK to run it? If my car can run at double digit minus temperatures, why can't the little outboard? Frozen water aside.

1) I think the responses have been that the lower unit is safe if immersed in the water[/B i.e.your boat is at a dock or slip until you give up for the year.
If you are talking about regular use in winter...and you are launching and recovering the boat regularly (not parking at a dock/slip) there are a few caveats that you need to consider: a) if there is any water in your lower unit it is at great risk of freezing and splitting.. Unless you are really comfortable with the absolute integrity of your lower unit, you would need to pull the drain plug after each use and ensure that the oil is uncontaminated.
b) I believe that these O/B motors drain OK if upright, but it is not instantaneous. When it is really cold, the last trickles of water can freeze and build up enough to close off the outlet. This is unlikely to cause freeze damage but could restrict water frow next time it is used. Then you get overheating etc....Constantly watch for proper water flow when running in winter. Of course if you are not experiencing sub-freezing temps, this is not relevent.
c) I have had a couple of small outboards that needed an extra ~ 1/4 turn on the low speed adjustment, slightly richer, to get a decent idle in late November/ December. I've always just assumed that it is because of the higher air-density and not thought any more about it.
Somebody in here may have a better explanation.

2) My outboards have always run fine in as cold weather as i have tried them. Have you actually had a problem with performance or operation?

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: How cold is too cold?

Geez -- we break ice to go duck hunting up here in the tundra. Yes -- the tell tale can freeze up but that's just the tell tale, the engine will still get cooling water as long as the pump has liquid water to pump. Obviously when you have an inch or more of ice forming without a daytime thaw, that's the sign that perhaps your boating season is over.

One related problem ...while duck hunting some years ago and heading into a bay at WOT I saw that the bay was frozen over....cut throttle but hit the edge of the ice and rode up, motor kicked up and wailed 'til I killed it, but the boat coated for about 300 yards on the ice. When it stopped we were on 1"-2" of solid ice and 300+yards from open water. Took about 20 minutes of VERY careful movement to get relaunched.

 

[SnappingTurtle]

Re: How cold is too cold?

The boat is an inflatable, and the motor comes out of the water after each use, but is kept outside.

The boat won't be used if the water is frozen, for obvious reasons, but I boat on a fast moving river, so although outside temperatures can spend days or weeks below freezing, the river doesn't often ice over.

The comparison to an auto, was more about running in these conditions, not storage.

I will give special attention to the lower unit lube though. Thanks for the tip.

If I give the flywheel a dozen or so turns, after use, after a hour or so, will I get the last of the water out system?

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: How cold is too cold?

The boat is an inflatable, and the motor comes out of the water after each use, but is kept outside.
If I give the flywheel a dozen or so turns, after use, after a hour or so, will I get the last of the water out system?

Probably, but if it is taking that long, the last small volumes would likely freeze first.

In non-freezing temps, I would think that once the motor has had 10-15 minutes to drain you are fine even if it gets realkly cold. So maybe as a simple experiment next time you take the boat out of the water, stick an empty bucket under the lower unit after 1-2 minutes, and leave for 10 minutes and see how much water actually does come out after that first-minute main rush. There may be only a few drops and this may be worrying over nothing, but I am just not sure of the actual time it takes for a motor to drain to a point of freeze-safety.
My motors are in the water until the season ends for me....then they get stored indoors....heated for 24 hours.

 

[SnappingTurtle]

Re: How cold is too cold?

Back in the day when I was a poor starving student in the rockies, I needed my car to start mornings, every morning. I had an old heating blanket, and used to throw it over the motor nights. It loved it, two cranks of the motor and away I would go.

My neighbors were always pulling the starter around the field. They came over one day when I came home and asked what kind of a heater I had installed. They cracked up when I showed them the ratty old blanket. I am sure it didn't do much, but it did enough.

Maybe I will just buy the old girl an electric blanket.

 

[rjezuit]

Re: How cold is too cold?

If you are really worried, mix a 50/50 mix of water/antifreeze in a barrel and run the motor in it when you get home. Then any liquid left in the cooling system will be good to roughly -40F. Rick