How come the floor tiles are not breaking?

Mark42

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In June of 2008 we replaced sheet vinyl flooring in the kitchen with ceramic floor tile. I was really reluctant to do tiles in the kitchen without adding extra layer of plywood because I know from experience that tiles come loose and grout falls out. But I did it without the extra ply anyway.

These are large tiles, about 16x16 and they have held up very well. Especially the grout, which I chose a basic "dirt" color (no kidding, I found the dirtiest stained grout in the house and matched the kitchen grout to that color so it will never look dirty). S0 far none of the full size tiles have cracked. Only two tiles cut into "L" shapes with a narrow 2" leg cracked at the bend. And they are not in a place where they are obvious.

The sub floor is APA rated 23/32" and is specific to flooring with the APA label "sturdy floor 24 OC" specification, although the joists are 16" on center glued to the joists. There was a 1/4" layer of sanded ply on top that the sheet vinyl was glued to. When the vinyl was removed, all glue was scraped off (ugg) and 2.5" screws were run through to the joists every 10 inches, then 1.25" screws were used on a 6" grid to ensure the 1/4" ply was tight to the sub floor. The 1/4" ply was not removed because all the cabinets were installed on top of it.

From below, additional cross bracing was installed in the way of 2x10 cut into sections that fit between the joists, and screwed and glued (using liquid nails) and 2x2's in the corners for extra mounting support. This helps to distribute the load from one joist to the adjoining joists and made a HUGE difference in floor deflection when I measured from joist to basement floor while wife jumped around on top.

Normally I would have glued down another layer of 1/2" or 3/4" ply, but I didn't feel like taking out all the cabinets to do this.

With two young kids in the house, always running and jumping, I am surprised that the tiles or the grout has not cracked or broken. If I jump in the center of the kitchen, the free standing stove will shake. So there is a bit of flex in the floor.

I am wondering why its held up so well. No loose grout, no cracked or loose tiles (laid in thinset mortar with plasticizers). If these new mortars and grouts can take flexing without cracking, that is amazing. I am totally impressed with the performance of the products I used.

Just wondering if this is typical results using the plasticized mortar and grouts available today. They sure worked well for me.

Ph2008-06-0800051.jpg
 

Bondo

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Re: How come the floor tiles are not breaking?

Ayuh,... I can't answer your questions Mark,...
But,...
That's a Beautiful floor....;)
 

Mark42

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Re: How come the floor tiles are not breaking?

Ayuh,... I can't answer your questions Mark,...
But,...
That's a Beautiful floor....;)

Thanks Bondo! I learned that big tiles are heavy and much more tiring to deal with than 6 or 8" tiles! Especially when mixing from different boxes to ensure an even mix of color (although all were from the same color lot number). What a job!
 

rbh

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Re: How come the floor tiles are not breaking?

Nice floor mark.
We have to build a new hearth for our wood stove due to a change in the building code, and we need to put ceramic tile on it.
How did you cut them, score and snap or saw????
And what thickness were the tiles???
 

dwco5051

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Re: How come the floor tiles are not breaking?

I just finished laying about 1300 square feet of 12 x 12 porcelain floor tile in my family room and gun room a few months ago. I bought one of the cheap $90 tile saws for the job and will be selling it on craigslist now that I am done. I worked part time for a flooring contractor when I was in college over 45 years ago so I still remembered the basic skills. I know why your floor is not cracking. It has to do with the density of the tiles. A case of tile now weighs about four times as much as it did in the early sixties. They also seem to get about 80 pounds of thinset in a bag that is marked 40 pounds.
 

Mark42

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Re: How come the floor tiles are not breaking?

Nice floor mark.
We have to build a new hearth for our wood stove due to a change in the building code, and we need to put ceramic tile on it.
How did you cut them, score and snap or saw????
And what thickness were the tiles???

The tiles were about 3/8 " thick. I used this 4" budget wet saw from Lowes. At $50 I figure it was just part of the materials expense. Ended up using it many times after. Darn thing just will not die. And replacement diamond coated blades are available at the store. Probably took about 45-60 seconds to cut a 16" tile in half nice and clean. If cutting faster, the edges of the cut can flake. A little messy, it tends to throw water all over with the guard off (which is how I used it) so all the cutting was done outside on the deck where it could be hosed off. I would measure and mark about 6 to 8 tiles at a time, then go cut them all. Then mix up some mortar and set them, etc.

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No score & snap tools were used. The tiles were too big and too expensive to risk breaking them, and a snap type tool was not available at the rental store that would fit a 16" tile.

I did the hearth on our fireplace with tile too. Pulled out a big raised hearth and put in this flush hearth to get more floor space. Again the wet saw was used. This time it was cutting slate.

6119.jpg


The slate was set in regular thinset mortar because the sub floor is concrete in this room. Instead of traditional grout, I went with "latex grout in a caulk tube". It worked really well. Pump it out, press in with a putty knife, wipe off excess with wet rag. After it sets up after a few hours, do a second application, wipe with wet rag and let dry. Bingo! Perfect grout. The slates fit together close, so the latex was used instead of regular grout. Been about 3 years, and it has held up fine, even with the heat from the fireplace.

You can view the whole family room makeover here: http://shareaproject.com/pages/projectTut,p,338,00.html

Thanks!

Mark
 

perchin

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Re: How come the floor tiles are not breaking?

Mark42 said:
I am wondering why its held up so well.

Because of the statement below.... even though the whole house shakes when you jump up and down in the center.;)

additional cross bracing was installed in the way of 2x10 cut into sections that fit between the joists, and screwed and glued (using liquid nails) and 2x2's in the corners for extra mounting support.

Nice looking floor BTW:)
 

MTboatguy

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Re: How come the floor tiles are not breaking?

Properly laid, with the proper sub-floor and prep work, they should not crack, I know a buddy of mine whole a tile working always makes sure the sub-floor is done properly before he will take a job, cause even if no his fault he knows who is going to get blamed if a tile cracks..
 
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