How to approach power company with losses?

[Bubba1235]

First, I buy electrical power from my local co-op. Don't know if that makes a difference but thought I would mention it.

This spring / summer I've been having a lot of problems with electrical power and devices in my home. I talked with a few neighbors and I am not alone. For my office computers and network I have a large UPS to protect it and I have been getting the warning buzzer several times a day. It normally only happens for maybe 30 seconds at a time but it happens frequently.

That prompted me to hook up a voltage monitor (an app for one of my test bed PCs.) and in the last three days I've seen voltage as high as 130 volts and as low as 106 volts. The time periods don't last long but again, they seem to happen multiple times a day. I also noted that the low voltage condition seems to hit right around 7:00 to 7:15 each morning, almost as if the load is beign transfered or a massive load is being brought on line. (I can't think of anything even remotely local that would cause this like a factory or something.)

So far this year I've lost a switch and the phone company has lost a modem. I've also lost the video card in the living room PC (not on a UPS), the compressor in the chest freezer, and the co-op has had to replace the yard light twice. (It's only had to be serviced one other time in 14 years.) My nieghbors all have the same sort of issues.

So, any advice on how I approach the electrical provider on this? I mean it would be nice if they replaced the toasted items or paid for them but I'm not as worried about that as I am about the continued problems if they don't address it. I can't afford a UPS big enough for the entire house!

 

[waterinthefuel]

Re: How to approach power company with losses?

First, I buy electrical power from my local co-op. Don't know if that makes a difference but thought I would mention it.

This spring / summer I've been having a lot of problems with electrical power and devices in my home. I talked with a few neighbors and I am not alone. For my office computers and network I have a large UPS to protect it and I have been getting the warning buzzer several times a day. It normally only happens for maybe 30 seconds at a time but it happens frequently.

That prompted me to hook up a voltage monitor (an app for one of my test bed PCs.) and in the last three days I've seen voltage as high as 130 volts and as low as 106 volts. The time periods don't last long but again, they seem to happen multiple times a day. I also noted that the low voltage condition seems to hit right around 7:00 to 7:15 each morning, almost as if the load is beign transfered or a massive load is being brought on line. (I can't think of anything even remotely local that would cause this like a factory or something.)

So far this year I've lost a switch and the phone company has lost a modem. I've also lost the video card in the living room PC (not on a UPS), the compressor in the chest freezer, and the co-op has had to replace the yard light twice. (It's only had to be serviced one other time in 14 years.) My nieghbors all have the same sort of issues.

So, any advice on how I approach the electrical provider on this? I mean it would be nice if they replaced the toasted items or paid for them but I'm not as worried about that as I am about the continued problems if they don't address it. I can't afford a UPS big enough for the entire house!

I would bring a log of the voltages your house is seeing. Bring a printed document. Then bring evidence of all of these items that are being fried. They need to pay for them. Make sure to be nice at first, and if you are brushed off, ask to speak to a supervisor. If THEY brush you off, get a lawyer involved.

 

[rbh]

Re: How to approach power company with losses?

High use times are generaly first thing in the morning (people getting ready to go to work) and around supper time.

Is there a commercial/farm user on your line that may draw the voltage down at that period??

 

[r.j.dawg]

Re: How to approach power company with losses?

I would be looking into a whole house surge protector. I have a Cutler Hammer model installed on our panel and everything that plugged in is protected. I think when it was all said and done I was out of pocket around $300.
http://www.eaton.com/Electrical/USA/ProductsandServices/Residential/SurgeProtection/index.htm

 

[rbh]

Re: How to approach power company with losses?

Nothing I can think of that would pull that kind of juice. There could be something I am not aware of though. Everyone making coffee at the same time???

All it would take is a big electric motor kicking in or a barn feeder system or a electric kiln.
Do you have single phase or 3 phase power on the pole, not that it matters as the draw could be coming from miles away, and effecting the transformer on your pole that feeds your home and neighbours homes.

just call the utilities company and tell them you are getting a brown out?? at certain times of the day.

 

[hostage]

Re: How to approach power company with losses?

Is someone in the house using a hair dryer in the morning?

 

[dingbat]

Re: How to approach power company with losses?

Most, if not all appliances and electronics are designed for 115/120VAC plus or minus 10%. At 120VAC, that's 100-132VAC so the problem isn't the voltage.

Most likely the problem is coming from transients (surges) or a ground issue. Are you using a surge protected meter? Have you checked the integrity of the grounds in your home? My in-laws where having the same types of problems until we identified a ground fault on the feed coming in.

 

[Fishing Dude too]

Re: How to approach power company with losses?

Be happy about it it shows that industry is working. We track this at work these are times that industry starts up and is deeper than local power company, goes to transmition lines. As machinery starts voltage drops on system, ac power can't be stored so generators at the sourse doesn't kick up, or in till drop happens. Lag is what your getting.

 

[justmissed]

Re: How to approach power company with losses?

I work for a coop. You should call them because they want to know about the problem. If is affecting you, it is probably affecting others (unless you are alone on a feeder). For them, it is better to fix it before it causes serious problems.

 

[hungupthespikes]

Re: How to approach power company with losses?

With the voltage drop on more than just your house, I'd look for the transformer first. You can trace down the wires from your house back to the right transformer.

You know when the voltage drop is, so check for the red overload warning light on the transformer that feeds your house.
If the transformer has the red light and its not on now, then check when the voltage drop is 7 to 7:15 am. (nice find bubba)

Transformers wear out like everything else and if the warning light is on the electric company will change it out when the weather permits. Much better for the electric company than some stormy night when it fails.

If no red light then the hard copy of the voltage drop that waterinthefuel posted before is your best bet.

 

[bigdee]

Re: How to approach power company with losses?

Co-op? You are part owner. My co-op encourages members to report problems. Don't attack them by making threats or demands but offer your input as a member to be a first step in resolving the issue. The big profit electric utilities are the one's that may be reluctant to listen to the residential user. Be patient though, these guys are responsible for a large area and have budget restrictions but they have the resources to solve problems.

 

[roscoe]

Re: How to approach power company with losses?

We had the same problem here, back in 1997-1999. Except we were not able to narrow down the times. And there were outages every few weeks.

Then it all went away, for the most part. I still get low voltage every few months, but nothing like it was.
They told me they brought in 2 new feeder lines into our part of the county to stabilize the grid.

 

[generator12]

Re: How to approach power company with losses?

Many years ago, I had issues with Commonwealth Edison, the provider for Chicago at the time. The initial difficulty was the fact that we were losing 50HP three phase motors to heat issues with current draw in the normal range. I believe that the problem was what is called "negative sequence harmonics", although I was unable to prove that before the problem disappeared.

A simple complaint didn't appear to register, as they denied any problem. But when I indicated that I had frequency measurements, oscilloscope trace photos, other smaller 3-phase motors varying in rotation rate by a couple of rpm with no load change, they began to listen. Suddenly, while I was in the act of documenting the problems with a strobe light and a camera, the problem disappeared. According to them, there never had been a problem. But I found that every single sign of a problem with incoming power had disappeared at the same time.

What I learned from this is that documentation is the absolute BEST STEP you can take. Whether they know and are denying, or don't know but are service-oriented, the best tool you have is good documentation. It can help them to determine what's happening, or it can intimidate them into correcting what they already know is wrong. Either way, without it you're just another barking dog. With it in hand, you have the ability to bring whatever outside agency is needed to "influence" their decisions.

Good luck.

 

[Cofe]

Re: How to approach power company with losses?

Give your local Coop a call and ask to speak to the transmission line department supervisor. Power companies want to know what is going on in their transmission grid to protect people and equipment. I used to work in the power industry.

 

[kahuna123]

Re: How to approach power company with losses?

Its a little more complicated than that. Probably whats happening in the morning is a large inductive load is coming on line and causing a phase shift. How they make up for that is to bring on capacitance to make up for it. Used to happen to one of my customers every day at 4 oclock.

Something they don't want you to know. Surge is NOT caused by lighting. The transformers cause it when the power comes on or off. The field collapses and causes a surge for milli-seconds that can be thousands of volts. When we were all still using tubes nobody cared. Tubes could take it with no problem. Solid state and IC chips cannot. Also cheap surge protectors can take one maybe two hits and then they are useless. When someone says their tv was hit by lighting and its not vaporized then it wasn't

 

[bigdee]

Re: How to approach power company with losses?

Give your local Coop a call and ask to speak to the transmission line department supervisor. Power companies want to know what is going on in their transmission grid to protect people and equipment. I used to work in the power industry.

A++ Power companies,especially co-ops want you to work with you, not against you. Harmonics are very costly to the utility because it is an unmeasured loss of energy that costs them and not you. However,unless you want to spend several thousand dollars on a power analyzer there is little you can do to document the actual data. 120 AC varies from 0 to 170 volts in amplitude every cycle so any inexpensive meter or data logger will only give an RMS average. Voltage is only one parameter,there are many other factors. The co-op have the instrumentation and engineers to look into your problem but be patient,these guys are usually backlogged and have priority areas they have to address first.

 

[generator12]

Re: How to approach power company with losses?

Excellent! They'll get to the bottom of it. These guys are good. It's just a matter of getting their attention.

 

[fishrdan]

Re: How to approach power company with losses?

For my office computers and network I have a large UPS to protect it and I have been getting the warning buzzer several times a day.

That UPS, most likely, is not doing any power conditioning withing it's threshold limits. If the threshold is 105-128V, the UPS is doing very little power conditioning (if any) while the power is within that range. I suspect the UPS is passing dirty power, straight through the UPS. I've run power analyzers plugged into UPS's, and you would be surprised what gets through.

I'd install line conditioners on your expensive electronics as they will correct most power issues that could damage the equipment, unless the power is really bad. Line conditioners are not terribly expensive and range from $50-100 on the low end. I've used APC and Tripplite line conditioners with great success , to resolve quirky power issues. I use the APC's at home since they are cheaper, but I think the Tripplites are a better product.

Even if the power company resolves the power issue at hand, I would still add the line conditioner(s), cheap insurance.