Incorrect wiring leading to distributor cap, oh my!

[herring627]

So I took off the distributor cap to get to my oil cooler. And of course I made a first timer's dumb mistake - I didn't have the outline for the proper order of wiring leading to distributor ... and of course I got the arrangement incorrect and now - I think I killed my boat! When I turned the ignition the engine did start but with a knocking sound and would not idle in neutral. Then it died. So I tried again, turned over a couple times but no start, tried again, turned over once stopped. Each time it sounded like it was hitting something. Since then I corrected the arrangement of wires and charged the battery to rule that out. Result - no change. Where on earth do I go from here?

 

[herring627]

Forgot to mention, this is a 2002 VP 5.0 GL-C (serial #4012082328). I also added the wiring diagram, I assume the arrow is pointing towards the bow!

 

[jbuote]

Not at all familiar with your engine, and NOT a pro, but what you describe sounds a lot like what happened to my buddies car some years back.. (Yes, different than boats, but it's still an engine..)
He didn't put the wires back on correctly.. Cylinders fired in wrong order and the timing belt jumped, and then valves hit pistons etc..

Don't know if that's what happened in your engine, but maybe it could be possible..

I might double check the plug wires to be sure they are on the right posts on distributor..
But even before that, if possible, can you manually turn the engine over with a breaker bar or similar method?
I'd probably see if you can do that and have it cycle 720 degrees by hand before trying to start with starter again..
I think 720 degrees of rotation should give each cylinder a TDC on both compression and exhaust stroke with valves in respective positions..
(Edit: I think there should be 3 bolt holes in your harmonic balancer/crankshaft pulley on the front of the engine.
Put some bolts in those 3 holes, and use them as leverage to manually turn the engine. Do NOT use a socket on the end of the crankshaft.. Remove all spark plugs when turning by hand... end Edit.. )

Maybe it's something really simple, and you'll be lucky, but the bottom line I'm thinking, is go back to basics.. Can you turn engine by hand?
Start by expecting the worst, and eliminating things with testing. From the most basic to more advanced.
You'll find what the issue is.

It's been YEARS since I've done that kind of work, but I think you may know what I mean.
Others will be along very shortly I'm sure to give better advice than I can, but maybe a start?

 

[Scott Danforth]

start from base-line

pull dizzy cap
pull #1 plug, put finger over hole
crank motor, when finger gets pushed off hole from pressure, that is TDC of #1.
look at rotor on dizzy, that is cylinder tower #1
put cap on, start with cylinder #1 tower and make sure wire goes to cyl #1
then follow firing order with wiring.

if you have a crab-cap, location of #1 tower on dizzy is fixed, and cap is labeled and you cant get it wrong.

 

[herring627]

Alright, I think I understand. Remove distributor / dizzy cap along with spark plug wires from dizzy cap. Thumb over elbow of spark plug wire while another person cranks engine. This will spin the rotor till top dead center (TDC) for cylinder #1. Now that I know this is cylinder once I can follow the order according to diagram. Did I get this right?

Now on to questions, doesn't the picture that I attached give us enough information to know the proper order of things? We did attempt to crank engine with dizzy cap off to determine direction of rotor but rotor did not budge. The manually turning of the engine sounds like good advice in this case (see jbuote ). One final question, on the dizzy cap their is room for one more wire in the middle of the cap. What is this for?

 

[dypcdiver]

Sounds as if you have a real problem if the rotor does not turn, are you sure the distributor is fully home? The centre connection is the HT feed from the coil.

 

[Maclin]

It seems you may have misunderstood Scott's post on finding #1. This method works every time, even if the distributor was not installed correctly, or if there is no way to remember what wire is what.

To get the engine to Top Dead Center on Cylinder #1 on compression stroke you need to remove the spark plug from the engine, hold you finger over the hole in the head that the spark plug was in, then when cranking the engine your finger will be blown off the hole indicating the compression stroke. The compression stroke at TDC (top dead center) is when the spark plug would fire for that cylinder. Once you have that determined for cylinder#1 then the rotor will be pointing towards the #1 on the distributor. You have to feel the "blow", because the cylinder on a 4stroke engine will hit TDC twice in one full power cycle.

As to the rotor not budging, if when the engine is cranking and definitely spinning and the rotor is not turning (and is installed correctly) then the distributor internal mechanicals have failed or the camshaft is not turning due to busted chain or whatever.

With the rotor off, you should be able to see the top of the distributor shaft turning.

It may be time for you to enlist some help from a knowledegable car buddy.

 

[alldodge]

We did attempt to crank engine with dizzy cap off to determine direction of rotor but rotor did not budge.

Not good, as others said, the rotor should be turning

The manually turning of the engine sounds like good advice in this case

No, Do NOT turn the engine over with a strong arm, you can do damage. That said, this being a VP the pump is on the front balancer so no chance of doing damage there. You can use the belt(s) to turn the motor over by hand

One final question, on the dizzy cap their is room for one more wire in the middle of the cap. What is this for?

There should only be 8 outer on one inner. The eight go to the eight plugs and the one in the center goes to the coil. There are no others.

Firing order is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 and the rotor rotates clockwise looking down on top of it

It may be time for you to enlist some help from a knowledegable car buddy.

This is the best quote from Maclin, you need to find someone with more auto knowledge because you have some major things going on and appears your going down a rabbit hole

 

[jbuote]

No, Do NOT turn the engine over with a strong arm, you can do damage. That said, this being a VP the pump is on the front balancer so no chance of doing damage there. You can use the belt(s) to turn the motor over by hand

Absolutely... I certainly didn't mean to "Force" it to turn.. Just try to hand turn it by whatever a good means is for your engine.. It should be pretty free to turn with plugs out..
If it feels like it gets "Stuck".. Do NOT force it.. That's where more damage can be done.. (And why I was leery of letting the starter try to crank it if something is off with a valve or something...)

In any event, the others here have way more experience than I do, so of course listen to them first! (I do.. LOL)
I'd have to agree with the quote from Maclin as well as AllDodge in finding some local auto guy to help out a bit if you can at this point..

Will keep following this just to see how you make out, and what really happened in there...
Best to you and Good luck!!

 

[herring627]

Thank you for all the info! It so happens that I have a friend who is an auto mechanic, I'll keep you posted.

 

[Scott Danforth]

It so happens that I have a friend who is an auto mechanic

always vet a "friend who is an auto mechanic" ask him the significance of a 1986 SBC... if he says center-bolts and one-piece rear main seal, then he can work on your boat. if he says "i dont know", find someone else. just like vetting a parts guy. (you ask a parts guy you need valve covers for a small block chev. if he asks perimeter or center, buy parts from him. if he asks for year, make, model, move on)

 

[Bt Doctur]

It was running before you removed JUST the dist cap and not the complete distibuter?
So, to verify #1 at top dead center just in case a previous person did manage to screw up the firing order you:
remove #1 spark plug
place finger in hole or use a compression tester hose screwed into the plug hole spin the motor looking for that rush of air.
Now locate the timing notch or tab and slowly tap the key to line up the mark, this is TDC of #1 cylinder
Remove the dist cap and look where the rotor is pointing, this iswhere #1 wire goes. Using the diagrams shown in the previous posts connect the sparkplug wires in that order.clockwise.