Indecent Proposal

[dragos28]

So last Saturday we had our SeaRay 180 out at Buena Vista Lake Ca,
had our family and some family friends out with us.
We pitched up camp on the far west side of the lake where there really weren't many other boaters but the "shore" was swim friendly.
We did so because there were a few small kids, including my 2 year old son that we felt would want to splish splash around.

Any how, I bought one of those WOW 2 person chariot style towable tubes and was towing the older kids (14, 13) and my wife and her friend all around the lake.
They had a ball, i'd fling them around at full throttle and occasionally they would catch some nice waves and get some air time.

anyhow, after every few laps i'd bring her in and i'd let the riders recover, have them change with other riders, yada yada.

there was a group of people next to us and a young gentleman asked if i would take him and his wife on a ride on the chariot/tube... he even offered to pay for a ride...

i said sure, I don't need any $ i'll be glad to give you guys a ride.... but since we had already had my wife and her friend loaded up i said on the next round.

as I was whipping the girls around they inevitably banged heads a few times and got thrown out a few times.. i was having fun watching them

but I thought about the guy and his girl and what if they were to get hurt....

so when i finally came back to shore the guy and his wife were anxiously waiting.

I felt like sh!t because i promised them a ride, but i told him: "I'm sorry guys but i just can't take you guys for a ride. I don't know you guys and there is a chance you might get hurt out there. I have two kids and I can't afford to take that risk of you guys getting hurt and possibly suing me. I apologize but I wont be able to do it."
exact words.

How would you guys have responded to a complete stranger requesting a ride on your towable....

Am i overreacting to the what-ifs... or did i make a smart decision in protecting myself and family from who-knows-what...
Not like they seemed like the litigious type, just a young couple..

 

[aspeck]

Re: Indecent Proposal

You made your decision and you can't look back, or undo it. I am not sure what I would have done, maybe taken them on a much more gentle ride? I don't know. Maybe I would have done the same as you. However, I do have some pretty decent insure that would have covered me, so I would have been inclined to take them on some sort of ride....

 

[Texasmark]

Re: Indecent Proposal

You just never know. As a result I have avoided offering numerous times to really unsuspecting folks.

Mark

 

[Malibu Rudder]

Re: Indecent Proposal

Dragos, I am with you completely. I know many will say, "Why not...just have fun" But.........unfortunately whether a person wants to sue or not, many insurance companies will require the injured to go after OP. I want to provide fun for people and I feel bad saying no to strangers but I think in this day and age it is imperative to kindly decline. I have often thought about asking people to sign a waiver before boarding etc but legally.....maybe that puts me more at risk of being sued. I do not know the laws etc so I cannot comment from that perspective. I hate the new lawsuit world!!!! Where are the days where people were responsible for their own actions?? UGH! It truly takes the fun out of life. Honestly, I should not be liable as long as I am not being reckless. Regardless whther you win or lose the lawsuit, we have to pay our own attorney bills. I tend to agree...."You made the right decision".

 

[Taxus812]

Re: Indecent Proposal

Its right in the middle. Since you decided to change your mind you handled it properly. That fact that it is bugging you tells me you are probably a decent person. You were honest about it. I always felt that is the best way to do things. There is nothing to challenge or be insulted by.

I however have liability insurance so I would probably go for it (but keep the ride tame) .

 

[dragos28]

Re: Indecent Proposal

I've been meaning to get insurance on my boat.. just havent gotten around to it.. my daughter's baptism is this saturday so this month we've been running around like crazy with preparations..

just the past couple of days i've been thinking about it and i honestly feel like i was a d!ck... but at the same time i truly am scared of the worst case scenario...

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Indecent Proposal

Fact is you would have been giving them the keys to your kingdom and could have only HOPED they would have given them back.

Maybe all would have gone well OR maybe they would have called an ambulance as soon as they hit the shore claiming you threw them around wildly and now they both have hurt backs... next thing you know you are selling your house and moving into a small apartment.... It's a HUGE gamble where they have everything to gain and you have everything to lose..... And that scenario assumes they don't really get hurt..... A serious injury and the promise of money can make some of the nicest people turn into sharks.

Sadly, in today's society, you made THE wise decision.

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Indecent Proposal

FWIW there have been MANY times that I have seen a nice looking family standing on the dock at my local ramp and wanted to offer them a ride and then I think "what if" and I keep my mouth shut and feel bad about it as I leave with just me on a 30' boat.

 

[Malibu Rudder]

Re: Indecent Proposal

I am completely insured to a fault but I want to protect myself. Even with insurance, I still do not like to take chances and I also do not want my insurance rates to go up with frivolous claims where the plaintiff is looking for the cash cow. I realize there are many people out there who would never sue no matter what.....but the insurance company, hospitals etc etc will require the suit. Knowing you did not have insurance, then FOR SURE you made the right decision by declining.

 

[agallant80]

Re: Indecent Proposal

There have been many times I have went out of my way to help someone only to hear them complain about my help or ask for more. With that said I have made many friends being social and open to a point with strangers. If the people seamed cool I would have taken them for a ride but have been gentle with them. I just thought of a good example of people being strange. A few years ago I took a friend out on the boat with his wife. She wanted to waterski, I put the line in, took the skis out of the locker, gave her a PFD, things were going fine. She was thumbing up to go faster and faster. Then she had enough let go landed in the water and had some water go in the out door. She gets back on the boat and starts complaning about it and how I was going too fast even though she was telling me to go faster, and when I say fast I mean like 23mph-25mph. It was not crazy fast.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Indecent Proposal

Well, I was going to say it's simply a judgment call until I read that you don't have insurance. You were just as much at risk towing "family friends" as strangers; if something major happens they will probably sue--or their med provider will. get liability insurance before your next trip and especially put that towable away until you do.

True, with strangers there are more unknowns which increase the risk over known quantities. You also increase risk with the activity--catching air and whipping a tube (against its instructions) is riskier than a boat ride around the lake. it would have been risky to give them a hot dog, too.

So you could have said, since I don't have insurance, I can't take you....

But if you had insurance, then as I said it's simply a judgment call and no right or wrong. The fact that you had reservations and followed your gut shows you did the right thing for you. it would have been equally right, for someone else, to take them out--share your experience, make a new friend, spread the happiness.

But one absolute: never ever take money, or anything of value, in advance. Do not make any form of payment a condition for the ride. You will have voided your insurance coverage--and yes they will if there is a serious incident. Obviously, it's not an issue if you get home safe and sound and they give you something, but you are much better off not going there (if they give you money after a successful trip, then you see them next week and they want a ride, and something happens, you may have a problem).

Some people seem to think you are automatically liable if someone gets hurt on your boat. That is simply not true. not not not. You are only liable if you do something negligent and they get hurt.* The problem is that "negligence" is a squishy standard. Some things are clearly negligent; some things are clearly not; it's the ones in between that make a horse race.

Now go get insurance and we will give you your boat keys back.


* For negligence, you have to owe the person a duty, you have to breach that duty, and they have to be damaged directly by that breach. To use your case, you have a duty to operate the tube safely; you breach it if you whip them at high speeds against a piling; if they are hurt you are responsible. Mitigating factors include assumption of risk and appreciation of risk. Depending on the state there is either contributory negligence or comparative negligence--let's say you are driving too fast (negligent) but he stands up (also negligent) falls and gets hurt. In a contributory state, his negligence cancels yours and you are off the hook. In a comparative state, if his standing up was 40% the cause of the injury and your speeding was 60%, then you owe him 60% of his damages.

 

[LippCJ7]

Re: Indecent Proposal

I understand your fears, but we take that risk all the time. tough call, I would have taken them but thats the way I am, I do not fault you in any way as I completely understand I mean 10 years ago I would bet you money you would have jumped at the chance to take some strangers for a ride and never second guess it but times have changed, and that is not your fault not in the least, it just sucks and thats what you are feeling now.

 

[Wind dog]

Re: Indecent Proposal

It's a sad commentary on society today when you can't give a stranger a ride without fearing a law suit.

What do you call 10,000 ambulance chasers at the bottom of San Francisco Bay? A damn good start.
What’s the difference between a lawyer & a mosquito? One’s a blood sucking parasite, the other is an insect.

 

[spdracr39]

Re: Indecent Proposal

You do whatever you feel comfortable with. I am not sure what I would have done without being there to access the people when I spoke to them.

 

[NC Broker]

Re: Indecent Proposal

For me it would depend on the person that was asking for a ride. I probably would have said yes being that it was a “young gentleman” and his wife at that time. But given you had time to think about what you were going to do like I have in the last few minutes, I would now say sorry but no. It’s a tough call.

 

[dvtran]

Re: Indecent Proposal

I guess a guy needs to go see his lawyer and get a bunch of injury waiver forms printed out. Leave them in your glove box and get every single person you tow behind your boat to sign and all should be good.

WTF is this world coming to?

 

[GA_Boater]

Re: Indecent Proposal

Drago - You did the right thing, even if you felt bad going back on saying yes. You have to protect yourself and your family first. Someone said about "giving the keys to the kingdom" and that is spot on. You just never know how people will react today.

 

[Fleetwin]

Re: Indecent Proposal

I've been meaning to get insurance on my boat.. just havent gotten around to it.. my daughter's baptism is this saturday so this month we've been running around like crazy with preparations..

just the past couple of days i've been thinking about it and i honestly feel like i was a d!ck... but at the same time i truly am scared of the worst case scenario...

Not to be harsh but are you nuts!!? All it takes is a phone call. I didn't even drag my new to me boat home without insurance.

A few weeks ago, Mrs. Fleetwin and I were at our local lake putting in when I strike up a conversation with two elderly gentlemen looking around the ramp. They both were widowers and ex-boaters. Age had made them get out of the activity.

We offered and took them for a ride. It wasn't easy getting them into the boat.

It absolutely made their day. They were perfect gentlemen and it was obvious they knew their way around boats.

All that leads into the fact that I am heavily insured. Taking two fragile gentlemen on a boat ride could be risky.

Was it worth it? Damn right it was.

 

[dvtran]

Re: Indecent Proposal

Not to be harsh but are you nuts!!? All it takes is a phone call. I didn't even drag my new to me boat home without insurance.

A few weeks ago, Mrs. Fleetwin and I were at our local lake putting in when I strike up a conversation with two elderly gentlemen looking around the ramp. They both were widowers and ex-boaters. Age had made them get out of the activity.

We offered and took them for a ride. It wasn't easy getting them into the boat.

It absolutely made their day. They were perfect gentlemen and it was obvious they knew their way around boats.

All that leads into the fact that I am heavily insured. Taking two fragile gentlemen on a boat ride could be risky.

Was it worth it? Damn right it was.

The boat is easily replaceable. The massive lawsuits that follow may not be. I have a 3 million dollar liability and still worry if thats enough. And I live in Canada, where lawsuits are few and far between.

 

[crabby captain john]

Re: Indecent Proposal

I'd be much more likely to take the 2 older gentlemen that anyone young. Usually my answer is 'sorry, but no'. Things were different in my younger days and I would have jumped at the chance to spread the fun. Too many sue happy people, hospitals and everything else. Mr Nice Guy is always seen as the bad guy when something goes wrong.

Not to be harsh but are you nuts!!? All it takes is a phone call. I didn't even drag my new to me boat home without insurance.

A few weeks ago, Mrs. Fleetwin and I were at our local lake putting in when I strike up a conversation with two elderly gentlemen looking around the ramp. They both were widowers and ex-boaters. Age had made them get out of the activity.

We offered and took them for a ride. It wasn't easy getting them into the boat.

It absolutely made their day. They were perfect gentlemen and it was obvious they knew their way around boats.

All that leads into the fact that I am heavily insured. Taking two fragile gentlemen on a boat ride could be risky.

Was it worth it? Damn right it was.