Is a bad Stator the cause of so much grief for me?

[hundee r1]

Guys, running in my rebuild and trying to sort out some niggling issues.

Before the rebuild, the motor wouldn?t rev over 4100rpm. Thinking a prop swap was in order:

http://forums.iboats.com/force-chrysler-outboards/do-i-need-prop-swap-my1994-90hp-force-594825.html

So, I comp tested the motor and found broken rings.
Assuming this was the reason, I rebuilt the motor.

http://forums.iboats.com/force-chrysler-outboards/down-under-rebuild-90hp-force-596028.html

Motor is 4-5hsr old now and running fine, but I?ve had it to 3500rpm and can tell it won?t be any different to before.

I also have a no charge condition, tested my rec/reg and stator as per the seloc manual and concluded the rec reg was stuffed, fitted the universal one which hasn?t fixed it.

http://forums.iboats.com/force-chrysler-outboards/another-battery-charge-thread-613454.html

Considering my reg /rec hasn?t fixed my charge issue and the motor wont rev out past 4000rpm, could it be a bad stator?

In the charge thread I checked its resistance, and all seems fine, but in all ignition troubleshooting guides it seems a bad stator could cause the motor not to rev past 3-4000rpm.

Mine doesn?t nose over , or miss, or play up, just runs out of steam!!

I?ve been told by everybody that the Prop size ?should? be right for the motor.

So my question is, has anybody actually had a bad stator that would rev limit your motor? and if so what was the symptom, would it miss, nose over or just run out of puff?

 

[Jiggz]

Re: Is a bad Stator the cause of so much grief for me?

Personally, I believe either a stator is working properly or not. I do not believe it can partially work without experiencing misfires. Since you mentioned you never experience misfires, I would assume you also have a properly working stator, a properly working trigger and properly working coils. With low max rpm, I would make sure the following are properly set: timing, carb floats, carb throttles, and right size of fuel jets. Make sure there is a clear fuel filter installed between the fuel pump and carb inlet. After this I will conduct a test on water with the cowling off at WOT while watching the clear fuel filter and also the position of the throttles. Just make sure the bow is not plowing with only two people on board. If the rpm is still too low or does not at least reach 5000 RPM, then I will start looking at the prop size and pitch. However, if the engine did not reach 5000 RPM and the clear fuel filter went below 50% full or less then it could be fuel delivery related problem. Or if it reached 5000 rpm and clear fuel filter stayed full it could be aspiration problem, i.e. exhaust leaks recirc'ing into the carbs. Try again with cowling on and see if engine rpm suffers again. Another thing is to make sure you use GPS to measure speed and that the installed tachometer is working properly.

 

[hundee r1]

Re: Is a bad Stator the cause of so much grief for me?

Personally, I believe either a stator is working properly or not. I do not believe it can partially work without experiencing misfires. Since you mentioned you never experience misfires, I would assume you also have a properly working stator, a properly working trigger and properly working coils..

my thoughts as well, Ive had plenty of missfires on 4 strokes due to intermittent spark, never this tho

With low max rpm, I would make sure the following are properly set: timing, carb floats, carb throttles, and right size of fuel jets. Make sure there is a clear fuel filter installed between the fuel pump and carb inlet. After this I will conduct a test on water with the cowling off at WOT while watching the clear fuel filter and also the position of the throttles. Just make sure the bow is not plowing with only two people on board. If the rpm is still too low or does not at least reach 5000 RPM, then I will start looking at the prop size and pitch. However, if the engine did not reach 5000 RPM and the clear fuel filter went below 50% full or less then it could be fuel delivery related problem. Or if it reached 5000 rpm and clear fuel filter stayed full it could be aspiration problem, i.e. exhaust leaks recirc'ing into the carbs. Try again with cowling on and see if engine rpm suffers again. Another thing is to make sure you use GPS to measure speed and that the installed tachometer is working properly.

I have rebuilt the fuel pump, didnt change anything, timing is correct and I have done a sync( hopefuly properly). Throttles are perfectly horizontal at full throttle on dry land.

All the re circulation lines where replaced when I rebuilt the motor, Im checking my speed using a GPS and Ive checked the tacho on land with a snap on tool.

I will remove the air filter box next time I test the boat, remove cowling and have a better lookt. Will also replace my new inline filter at the carb with a clear one just to cross that off.

Can only think of a carb rebuild, but again, would have to be a serious issue with them to limit the motor by 1000 rpm dont you guys think?

many thanks to you all, much appreciated

 

[pnwboat]

Re: Is a bad Stator the cause of so much grief for me?

I wonder if you have a case of water logged floatation foam under the deck adding excessive weight to your hull??

 

[Jiggz]

Re: Is a bad Stator the cause of so much grief for me?

We'll be looking forward on your test results.

 

[hundee r1]

Re: Is a bad Stator the cause of so much grief for me?

I wonder if you have a case of water logged floatation foam under the deck adding excessive weight to your hull??

No foam in this hull mate, seems the australia boat builders arnt as bigger fans of filling hulls with foam as you boys are.
A few late model boats have them, but mine 100% doesn't

 

[I`mNotMe]

Re: Is a bad Stator the cause of so much grief for me?

I too was under the impression that a Stator is working or NO state. Nothing in the middle.

A few moments ago, I stumbled upon a Force Troubleshooting page.

re: Outboard Ignition Troubleshooting - Page 10 - Force outboard

Within above URL, it describes testing procedure for Force engines that won't rev > 3,000 - 4,000 RPMs. And miss-fire at high RPMs.

Might be work investigating - on your Force engine.

Hope this helps.

 

[hundee r1]

Re: Is a bad Stator the cause of so much grief for me?

Updated my no charge thread.

Bit the bullet and threw 400 big ones at a new CDI Reg and Stator.

The motor is now charging on the muffs and tacho working properly.

Ive added a clear filter to the fuel line going to the carbs and taken the airbox off in preperation for a test trial in the water this weekend.

I had a re circulation line going to the air box, Im assuming I just leave that venting to atmosphere?

also, I havnt re-timed the motor, but changing the stator (didnt touch the trigger ) wouldn't have made too much difference to the timing?

 

[Jiggz]

Re: Is a bad Stator the cause of so much grief for me?

Stator will not affect timing at all. Congrats but that sure is one big 400 bones! Enjoy!

 

[hundee r1]

Re: Is a bad Stator the cause of so much grief for me?

took the boat out on the weekend.
Charge system is working a treat, sat at a rock solid max of 14 volts on my gauge.
Bad news is it still wont rev out and its done it a few times now, but after a long stint at 3000rpm, slow down to idle, go to take off and it bogs , coughs, splutters then dies. Starts up straight away, but takes a few goes to get up onto plane again without it stalling. Only does it when warm after a good trip.

unfortunatly it was too rough to get on to the back and look at the clear filter and my crew where very in-experienced to get them to do it, so for safety, I wasnt able to check anything else.
carb rebuild it is I think.

 

[pnwboat]

Re: Is a bad Stator the cause of so much grief for me?

Well at least you're making some progress. One problem down and one to go.

 

[Jiggz]

Re: Is a bad Stator the cause of so much grief for me?

I'll wait before delving into the carb rebuild for calmer seas. Instead of having inexperience crew do the checking, after being out at sea and start to experience sputtering, turn off engine. Remove the cowl, and then do the run again at high speed. Have someone take over the helm and check the clear fuel filter. All it takes is a few seconds.

 

[hundee r1]

Re: Is a bad Stator the cause of so much grief for me?

I understand where you are coming from Jiggs, but I just cant see fuel to the carbs being the issue.

I rebuilt the fuel pump just before embarking on the engine build when this stalling first happened. There was visually nothing wrong with it and has made no diffrence to how the motor ran.Re did all the gas lines, even the pick up in the gas tank. So then I rebuilt the motor due to the smashed rings, didnt fix it, throw the new reg and stator at the motor and Ive still got a rev limit of 4k and this stalling at part throttle after the motor is warm.
I really cant see what Im missing apart from the carbs, I havnt looked at them ever!! Its always started easy and ran fine most of the time so figured leave tham as a last resort.

I think Im at that stage now, but Im open to other suggestions!!

 

[Jiggz]

Re: Is a bad Stator the cause of so much grief for me?

You are only a step away from validating what you are suspecting that the carbs could be the problem. Personally, I'd rather take the time to validate my suspicion by verifying the clear filter is at least staying 1/2 full throughout the high rpm runs. If it doesn't, obviously the carbs cannot be the sole source of the problem. However, of course the final call is yours and yours alone. If you decide to overall the carbs, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that either. The clear fuel filter not staying full during high rpm run is an indication of multiple source of fuel delivery problems, i.e. not fully working fuel pump, leaky connections, clogged fuel tank vents, partially clogged suction tube and even undersized fuel hoses. Likewise with multiple carbs engine one malfunctioning carb can actually adversely affect max RPM.

 

[hundee r1]

Re: Is a bad Stator the cause of so much grief for me?

Yeh, I hear ya Jiggz, thanx a heap for all your help throught out all this mate !!

I spoke to a mechanic buddy last night, he too agrees with you that we should delve a little deeper before pulling the carbs.

he has a tank at his house that we can run the motor in with the exhaust under water. He fill have a look at the tune up and if we cant find anything, we will take it into some calm waters and do some further on board daignostics before we go further and pull the carbs

 

[Jiggz]

Re: Is a bad Stator the cause of so much grief for me?

Good call Hundee! It's called troubleshooting instead of guessing. Although, no one can really tell when you're going to get really lucky! It's spring time at your side of the woods so there should be more time to go out and boat anyways.

 

[hundee r1]

Re: Is a bad Stator the cause of so much grief for me?

Minor update.

had mechanic buddy go over the tune up. spent 1 hr or so going over timing and carb mixtures in a tub including in gear.

Wasn’t far off and all the carbs responded well to tuning so its highly doubtful that I’m missing 1000RPM in tune up?

So yes, I intend on checking things on the water, but I intend on taking some props to try out whilst I’m out there aswell.

it’s got a15 spline, 3 blade aluminium 13.25 x 17P on it atm, so at the very least I will see if I can find a 13.25x15P to try.
any other suggestions of props to try? Have to do the run around to all the local shops, see what props they have for me

On a slightly different topic, does anybody know at what revs these motors are meant to make peak power?

 

[pnwboat]

Re: Is a bad Stator the cause of so much grief for me?

I believe that the horsepower rating is at approx. 5500 RPM's.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: Is a bad Stator the cause of so much grief for me?

What motor?Year?
You sure the lower is the original?
Your plugs all burning right?
You getting spark on all the plugs?
What speeds are you getting?
Your tach reading right?
ANY?? spit back from the carbs?
Do another comp test? Results?

 

[hundee r1]

Re: Is a bad Stator the cause of so much grief for me?

started a thread in the prop section, pretty smart cookies on there:

http://forums.iboats.com/prop-questions-topics/please-help-me-find-my-revs-631514.html

Jerry:
90hp, 1992
gear case = No, but I have no reason to think other wise
plugs = They arnt fouling, but I havnt done a check after a full rev period to check conditions at full revs
speed= I think 50km/hr at 4000rpm
tacho= I think so, but only checked at idel with a snap on tool.
carbs= no spit back
comp= 145-150 on all 3