Is there any merit to running a "kicker" motor vs. small hp tiller?

KC8QVO

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By "kicker" I mean the 9.9's and 15's that have big 4 blade props and full remotes/power trim.

What about running a 5hp tiller and remoting the throttle/shifter and tying the steering to main? I know there are no "kits" from the manufacturers, but it could be customized.

Im thinking in terms of a gas trolling motor on a 16ft boat - dont need a lot of power, just to keep the time off the main.
 

ondarvr

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It can be done, and is frequently.


There is little difference in using a 9.9, 15 or 5HP when it comes to this.

There are several linkage systems on the market to connect both motors.
 

ondarvr

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The issues with the newer 6hp and smaller motors is that they are all single cylinder models and most are louder, shake and vibrate a great deal more than a twin cylinder kicker, so people tend to not use them if trolling is the objective.
 

KC8QVO

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The noise and vibration is a thought, but I am more concerned with the thrust of the motor.

I am doing some searching here and a couple issues that appear to come up are weight and thrust.

In regards to thrust - there is usually reference in these threads about the "hull speed" or "displacement speed" of a hull, which in doing some more searching roughly means the speed at which the frequency/wavelength of the wave created by the bow of the boat moving in the water matches the length of the boat. Though, that seems to be a bit misleading because I found references to that figure and there not being any "special" increase in drag at that moment. Obviously, as you speed up the drag increases. However, what I found with the displacement/hull speed was nothing like the difference between a boat plowing and jumping on step - where there is a "jump" in power vs. speed in most cases. In reference to the hull/displacement speed, though, what usually comes up is that around that speed there is a law of diminishing returns with motor hp. The difference between a 5hp motor and 10hp motor, in terms of increase in thrust and forward speed, is a moot point. Going between displacement/hull speed and step/planing speed would take way more than a 10hp motor, but that isn't the point. Adequate thrust/control is - as emergency power to get home, but most often used for trolling.

Some references I found were in regards to greater than 20ft boats in rough seas where with much wind and larger waves a 5hp motor would be taxed pretty hard. In calm seas the 5hp would work fine. In these cases the usual recommendation is more power.

Then there is the added weight on the transom to contend with. When I make my rounds on the lake I always have a spare motor with me - either a 9.9 or a 4hp, mostly the 9.9. Just to try it last year I put the 9.9 on the transom just like I would if I was out on the lake and the main (25hp) quit. I moved the 25 over and dropped the 9.9 on. It usually rides up front to distribute the load better. With the 2 motors on the transom the bow went up to about a 45deg angle. I didn't give it a good run or adjust the ballasting, I did not have any other gear in the boat as I was just testing it. The bigger the boat the less this would be an issue, but the other side of it is transporting the boat and the road torture. If the kicker is permanently mounted this is extra weight the transom has to endure.

I suppose a kicker wouldn't be too hard, even if it is a bolted-on mount, to take on and off the boat. So transportation aside I think the 2 questions are 1. the amount of thrust/control and whether, with a smaller boat, a 5hp motor would give adequate control; and 2. if the added weight of a larger motor would have adverse affects on the performance of the boat. With a light empty boat on a calm day (16ft, 64" beam) the 4hp we have will scoot it pretty good. Quadruple the weight and add 12-20" to the beam and what happens?
 
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ondarvr

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Don't over think it, there are no hard and fast rules, and there are pro's and con's to every option, and almost every option will work, just some better than others.

Every fishing boat in this part of the world uses a kicker, has to do with how we fish. Almost nobody will use a small light single cylinder model due to noise and vibration, so it's not even considered an option. Going up in size means twin cylinder 4 stroke if new, a lighter 2 stroke twin if older. Go with as much HP as possible in the same size and weight if possible (15 over 9.9) but it doesn?t make that much of a difference.

High thrust helps a great deal with boat control in rougher conditions, but on a smaller boat isn?t a deal breaker. If you want the best, go with a T9.9 Yamaha (high thrust), the older T8 is great if you can find one. High thrust versions weigh more, and it isn?t as important on a small boat, so a normal motor is fine.
 

pecheux

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Had a 9.9 hp mounted on a tilt up transom next to the Tower of power on a 21 footer. Tightened the friction bolt so motor stayed straight and steered with powered off main motor. This system was used mainly for fishing so kicker was at idle all the time. Hope this helps.
 

KC8QVO

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Is there much worry about fouling up a kicker motor running at low speeds (either larger hp twin cylinders or smaller hp singles)? I would think a twin would run "hotter" so the RPM would be less for the same thrust a smaller HP motor would need for the same speed. With running low RPM's will that gum up anything?

What about on the high end? Are the props for "kickers" tuned like the main - and by that i mean trying to get the target WOT to be between 5-6000 RPM (generally speaking)? Or is there more to a kicker motor/prop than tuning for WOT?
 
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Sea Rider

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All kickers should work inside their wot rpm factory parameters, if not will need a prop pitch change to achieve that or will ruin the engine in a very short term. If in need of medium to full power that engine will work ok, You'll need an induction tach to check that out. If you boat on windy, strong currents a small kicker is a bad idea....

Happy Boating
 

ondarvr

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Most people don't change the prop on their kickers for best performance and RPM's, but you should if possible. If it's used for trolling the correct prop isn't quite as critical as would be if you were running the motor wide open. There is a great deal of prop slip at low RPMs and the load on the motor isn't significant, so it's not going to cause much harm. The main reason to change the prop would be to put on a lower pitch high thrust version designed for lower speed and pushing a heavy load, this gives much better boat control, especially in revers.


There can be issues with 4 strokes when operated at low RPMs for hours on end, they just don't get warm enough to burn off water from condensation in the crankcase, also gas can get into the crankcase and people think their motor is making oil. In cold climates this is even more of a problem, around here some people put a hotter thermostats in so it will run warmer, or run the motor harder at the end of the day to get it hot enough.
 
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