Is there different 'throw' lengths in the shipmaster and simplex controls?

samo_ott

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I ask as I just set up controls on a '63 Viking 25hp and with the remote control (simplex I believe) shifter all the way forward, the actual gear shifter on the engine does not go all the way forward. And I don't want to run it with it not fully in gear. That's a recipe for a short clutch dawg life. As far as I can see it just doesn't do it and it's adjusted all the way out. I do have other controls I could try but I was wondering if anyone knew of a difference between the two? Or did they differ over the years? Thanks...
 

jay_merrill

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Re: Is there different 'throw' lengths in the shipmaster and simplex controls?

No. They are exactly the same controls, other than paint color and placard. If you can not adjust the spin wheel at the engine end of the shift cable adequately, you have another problem.

If your controls take the older, Type 400 cables (pre-1979), the way that the control box and shift fitting (engine end) are set on the inner steel wire, via the set screws, could be an issue. If you have a later control which requires the press fit, Type 479 cables, there isn't any way that the pieces could be improperly fit.

If I am not mistaken, worn parts in the engine's shift linkage can cause this problem. Unfortunately, the only way to get at those parts to inspect and/or replace them, is to pull the powerhead.

One thing that catches my eye on your post, however, is that you describe the cable end adjustment as being "all the way out." I believe that would cause the fore and aft limits of travel for the cable end to favor reverse, not forward. Are you sure you have the cable end adjusted properly?

BTW, I'm not sure that the OMC built Vikings included a 25hp in 1963 - you may actually have a 35hp motor.

PS: As I was proof reading this, one other idea came to mind - there is a trunnion (knob) on the control box end of the cable, which fits into an insert in the control box. Its function is to hold the outer casing of the cable in place, so that the inner wire will move, rather than the whole assembly moving. There are a couple of trunnion caps that fit down into the recessed portions of the control box, which hold the cable trunnion with no "play" in the cable to box junction. Although any "slop" resulting from these caps not being there would be minimal, such a condition could be a contributing factor.
 

tashasdaddy

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Re: Is there different 'throw' lengths in the shipmaster and simplex controls?

also they used the plastic slides inside the control box, with the cable inserted thur the slide, if the cable is too far thru the slide, that changes the throw. there should only be a 1/16th to 1/8 of the wire sticking out the end of the slide.
 

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samo_ott

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Re: Is there different 'throw' lengths in the shipmaster and simplex controls?

Well I know it's a 25. I'm not 100% sure on the year though. I will post pics later on.

TD. the last 2 photos are kinda hard to see...
 

lindy46

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Re: Is there different 'throw' lengths in the shipmaster and simplex controls?

When I switched out my 1972 18hp Evinrude and put a 1957 35hp Lark on my boat, the newer control didn't have enough throw to shift the older motor completely into gear. I could adjust it to fully engage forward, then it wouldn't fully engage reverse, and vice-versa. I went ahead and put the original 1958 Simplex control on the motor and it worked fine. The old control had about a half inch more throw than the newer control.
 

F_R

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Re: Is there different 'throw' lengths in the shipmaster and simplex controls?

If you have the early (type 400) cables, it is common for them to break the inner wire at the setscrews. Then the owner simply reattaches the cable end to what is left of the inner wire. Trouble is, that means the wire is too short and that reduces the total available throw because the cable end at one end bottoms out on the brass tube before the other end has gone full travel. That results in the lever not being allowed to go full travel. I've seen it happen many times.

As jay said, there are only two types. The early type had a rack gear in the control and round ball-type knobs. Both types accepted the same type 400 cable up to around 1979.
 

jay_merrill

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Re: Is there different 'throw' lengths in the shipmaster and simplex controls?

The part that TD is talking about is called a "casing guide." He's right about the adjustment and this is part of what I was talking about in regard to the set screws. Since there is a little bit of variation in where the set screws can be tightened down on the inner wire of the cable assembly, you can get variations in the "throw" of the entire shift system.

BTW, the casing guide, and a part called the "casing guide insert" are the reasons why you can not use Type 479, press fit cables on a pre 1979 Simplex of Shipmaster control box. The later box has the same parts, but they are different. The casing guide has a pin that goes through the pressed on end of the cable, rather than set screws to clamp onto bare wire, and the casing guide insert is a different size.

I've also seen the problem that F R is talking about. In fact, I even cut the wire on a shift cable once, trying to fix the same problem that you have. I was still teaching myself all of this stuff at the time and just made a mistake due to inexperience. At the time, the cables only cost about 20 bucks, so it didn't "hurt" too badly when I had to replace the darn thing!

To get a better look at the inside of your control box, you can go to the "OB ACCESSORIES" section of shop.evinrude.com. If you have the set screws, go to any year prior to 1979, then go to "remote control" (year will show) and then "remote ctrl single motor."

As F R mentioned, the original Simplex and Shipmaster controls (50s version) are built somewhat differently than the later ones. These units are identifiable by their smaller size and rounded shoulders. I don't have any diagrams to look at, but if I remember correctly, the shift and throttle handles have gear teeth on them (internally), and so do the casing guides. The casing guides also have the set screws in them, so the same problem that TD is talking about, as well as the one F R is talking about, can occur.

Here's a link for model number info on Viking engines. I had seen something else that suggested that a 1963 would not be a 25hp, but this indicates that it could be. There is a little confusion on the subject, because the OMC built Vikings ended when the Gale division, where they were made, closed during that approximate time frame. Apparently the later engines were Chryslers. Given that the OMC Vikings will have the powerhead, midsection and gearbox of the non-Superquiet 35hp. 28hp and 33hp motors, however, there won't be any doubt who made yours. In fact, if yours is a '63 and OMC built, it should be essentially identical to 28hp Rude or Johnson.

At any rate, you have a cool motor! I keep thinking that, if I end up with a vintage boat project, I just might have to go find a Gale or Viking to put on it for the "cool factor!"

http://www.richardlpaquette.ca/VikingModel-YearGuide.pdf
 

samo_ott

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Re: Is there different 'throw' lengths in the shipmaster and simplex controls?

My cable at the engine side has no set screws, it is a fixed cable. And i tried to get it off and it's sure fixed on. Does that make it a modern cable? It came with the boat.

As Lindy46 said, it sounds like they do have different stroke lengths. I have a few other controls lying around and I'd rather use one with the set screws so I will see if one works as all the wiring is done and it's ready to go in the water.

I have it on my 16' pontoon replacing my '66 Evinrude 18 I had on it last year... Which replaced the '58 Johnson 10 I had on it a few years earlier... which replace the '61 Evinrude 5.5 that I had on it when I got it 10 years ago. Yes, you can move a fully loaded 16' pontoon boat with a 5.5. It surprised me also. I thought it would just blow down the river sideways when I got it!
 

jay_merrill

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Re: Is there different 'throw' lengths in the shipmaster and simplex controls?

I'm not surprised at all that a 5.5 pushed your 16' toon - I've pushed a 26" fiberglass sailboat with one.
 
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