Is this misleading?

eeboater

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Jul 19, 2004
Messages
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I need some opinions from the people on the left... This is a speech that the president did shortly after we struck Iraq. We have consistently been hearing that we were mislead... Do you find this misleading?<br /><br />---------------------------------------<br /><br />Good evening.<br /><br />Earlier today, I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces. Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors.<br /><br />Their purpose is to protect the national interest of the United States, and indeed the interests of people throughout the Middle East and around the world.<br /><br />Saddam Hussein must not be allowed to threaten his neighbors or the world with nuclear arms, poison gas or biological weapons.<br /><br />I want to explain why I have decided, with the unanimous recommendation of my national security team, to use force in Iraq; why we have acted now; and what we aim to accomplish.<br /><br />Six weeks ago, Saddam Hussein announced that he would no longer cooperate with the United Nations weapons inspectors called UNSCOM. They are highly professional experts from dozens of countries. Their job is to oversee the elimination of Iraq's capability to retain, create and use weapons of mass destruction, and to verify that Iraq does not attempt to rebuild that capability. The inspectors undertook this mission first 7 1/2 years ago at the end of the Gulf War when Iraq agreed to declare and destroy its arsenal as a condition of the ceasefire.<br /><br />The international community had good reason to set this requirement. Other countries possess weapons of mass destruction and ballistic missiles. With Saddam, there is one big difference: He has used them. Not once, but repeatedly. Unleashing chemical weapons against Iranian troops during a decade-long war. Not only against soldiers, but against civilians, firing Scud missiles at the citizens of Israel, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and Iran. And not only against a foreign enemy, but even against his own people, gassing Kurdish civilians in Northern Iraq.<br /><br />The international community had little doubt then, and I have no doubt today, that left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will use these terrible weapons again.<br /><br />The United States has patiently worked to preserve UNSCOM as Iraq has sought to avoid its obligation to cooperate with the inspectors. On occasion, we've had to threaten military force, and Saddam has backed down.<br /><br />Faced with Saddam's latest act of defiance in late October, we built intensive diplomatic pressure on Iraq backed by overwhelming military force in the region. The U.N. Security Council voted 15 to zero to condemn Saddam's actions and to demand that he immediately come into compliance.<br /><br />Eight Arab nations -- Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, United Arab Emirates and Oman -- warned that Iraq alone would bear responsibility for the consequences of defying the U.N.<br /><br />When Saddam still failed to comply, we prepared to act militarily. It was only then at the last possible moment that Iraq backed down. It pledged to the U.N. that it had made, and I quote, a clear and unconditional decision to resume cooperation with the weapons inspectors.<br /><br />I decided then to call off the attack with our airplanes already in the air because Saddam had given in to our demands. I concluded then that the right thing to do was to use restraint and give Saddam one last chance to prove his willingness to cooperate.<br /><br />I made it very clear at that time what unconditional cooperation meant, based on existing U.N. resolutions and Iraq's own commitments. And along with Prime Minister Blair of Great Britain, I made it equally clear that if Saddam failed to cooperate fully, we would be prepared to act without delay, diplomacy or warning.<br /><br />Now over the past three weeks, the U.N. weapons inspectors have carried out their plan for testing Iraq's cooperation. The testing period ended this weekend, and last night, UNSCOM's chairman, Richard Butler, reported the results to U.N. Secretary-General Annan.<br /><br />The conclusions are stark, sobering and profoundly disturbing. In four out of the five categories set forth, Iraq has failed to cooperate. Indeed, it actually has placed new restrictions on the inspectors. Here are some of the particulars.<br /><br />Iraq repeatedly blocked UNSCOM from inspecting suspect sites. For example, it shut off access to the headquarters of its ruling party and said it will deny access to the party's other offices, even though U.N. resolutions make no exception for them and UNSCOM has inspected them in the past. Iraq repeatedly restricted UNSCOM's ability to obtain necessary evidence.<br /><br />For example, Iraq obstructed UNSCOM's effort to photograph bombs related to its chemical weapons program. It tried to stop an UNSCOM biological weapons team from videotaping a site and photocopying documents and prevented Iraqi personnel from answering UNSCOM's questions. Prior to the inspection of another site, Iraq actually emptied out the building, removing not just documents but even the furniture and the equipment. Iraq has failed to turn over virtually all the documents requested by the inspectors. Indeed, we know that Iraq ordered the destruction of weapons-related documents in anticipation of an UNSCOM inspection.<br /><br />So Iraq has abused its final chance. As the UNSCOM reports concludes, and again I quote, "Iraq's conduct ensured that no progress was able to be made in the fields of disarmament. In light of this experience, and in the absence of full cooperation by Iraq, it must regrettably be recorded again that the commission is not able to conduct the work mandated to it by the Security Council with respect to Iraq's prohibited weapons program." In short, the inspectors are saying that even if they could stay in Iraq, their work would be a sham.Saddam's deception has defeated their effectiveness.<br /><br />Instead of the inspectors disarming Saddam, Saddam has disarmed the inspectors. This situation presents a clear and present danger to the stability of the Persian Gulf and the safety of people everywhere. The international community gave Saddam one last chance to resume cooperation with the weapons inspectors. Saddam has failed to seize the chance. And so we had to act and act now.<br /><br />Let me explain why.<br /><br />First, without a strong inspection system, Iraq would be free to retain and begin to rebuild its chemical, biological and nuclear weapons programs in months, not years.<br /><br />Second, if Saddam can crippled the weapons inspection system and get away with it, he would conclude that the international community -- led by the United States -- has simply lost its will. He will surmise that he has free rein to rebuild his arsenal of destruction, and someday -- make no mistake -- he will use it again as he has in the past.<br /><br />Third, in halting our air strikes in November, I gave Saddam a chance, not a license. If we turn our backs on his defiance, the credibility of U.S. power as a check against Saddam will be destroyed. We will not only have allowed Saddam to shatter the inspection system that controls his weapons of mass destruction program; we also will have fatally undercut the fear of force that stops Saddam from acting to gain domination in the region.<br /><br />That is why, on the unanimous recommendation of my national security team -- including the vice president, the secretary of defense, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, the secretary of state and the national security adviser -- I have ordered a strong, sustained series of air strikes against Iraq. They are designed to degrade Saddam's capacity to develop and deliver weapons of mass destruction, and to degrade his ability to threaten his neighbors.<br /><br />At the same time, we are delivering a powerful message to Saddam. If you act recklessly, you will pay a heavy price. We acted today because, in the judgment of my military advisers, a swift response would provide the most surprise and the least opportunity for Saddam to prepare. If we had delayed for even a matter of days from Chairman Butler's report, we would have given Saddam more time to disperse his forces and protect his weapons.<br /><br />Also, the Muslim holy month of Ramadan begins this weekend. For us to initiate military action during Ramadan would be profoundly offensive to the Muslim world and, therefore, would damage our relations with Arab countries and the progress we have made in the Middle East. That is something we wanted very much to avoid without giving Iraq a month's head start to prepare for potential action against it.<br /><br />Finally, our allies, including Prime Minister Tony Blair of Great Britain, concurred that now is the time to strike. I hope Saddam will come into cooperation with the inspection system now and comply with the relevant U.N. Security Council resolutions. But we have to be prepared that he will not, and we must deal with the very real danger he poses.<br /><br />So we will pursue a long-term strategy to contain Iraq and its weapons of mass destruction and work toward the day when Iraq has a government worthy of its people.<br /><br />First, we must be prepared to use force again if Saddam takes threatening actions, such as trying to reconstitute his weapons of mass destruction or their delivery systems, threatening his neighbors, challenging allied aircraft over Iraq or moving against his own Kurdish citizens. The credible threat to use force, and when necessary, the actual use of force, is the surest way to contain Saddam's weapons of mass destruction program, curtail his aggression and prevent another Gulf War.<br /><br />Second, so long as Iraq remains out of compliance, we will work with the international community to maintain and enforce economic sanctions. Sanctions have cost Saddam more than $120 billion -- resources that would have been used to rebuild his military. The sanctions system allows Iraq to sell oil for food, for medicine, for other humanitarian supplies for the Iraqi people. We have no quarrel with them. But without the sanctions, we would see the oil-for-food program become oil-for-tanks, resulting in a greater threat to Iraq's neighbors and less food for its people.<br /><br />The hard fact is that so long as Saddam remains in power, he threatens the well-being of his people, the peace of his region, the security of the world. The best way to end that threat once and for all is with a new Iraqi government -- a government ready to live in peace with its neighbors, a government that respects the rights of its people. Bringing change in Baghdad will take time and effort. We will strengthen our engagement with the full range of Iraqi opposition forces and work with them effectively and prudently.<br /><br />The decision to use force is never cost-free. Whenever American forces are placed in harm's way, we risk the loss of life. And while our strikes are focused on Iraq's military capabilities, there will be unintended Iraqi casualties. Indeed, in the past, Saddam has intentionally placed Iraqi civilians in harm's way in a cynical bid to sway international opinion. We must be prepared for these realities. At the same time, Saddam should have absolutely no doubt if he lashes out at his neighbors, we will respond forcefully. Heavy as they are, the costs of action must be weighed against the price of inaction.<br /><br />If Saddam defies the world and we fail to respond, we will face a far greater threat in the future. Saddam will strike again at his neighbors. He will make war on his own people. And mark my words, he will develop weapons of mass destruction. He will deploy them, and he will use them. Because we're acting today, it is less likely that we will face these dangers in the future.<br /><br />Let me close by addressing one other issue. Saddam Hussein and the other enemies of peace may have thought that the serious debate currently before the House of Representatives would distract Americans or weaken our resolve to face him down.<br /><br />But once more, the United States has proven that although we are never eager to use force, when we must act in America's vital interests, we will do so. In the century we're leaving, America has often made the difference between chaos and community, fear and hope. Now, in the new century, we'll have a remarkable opportunity to shape a future more peaceful than the past, but only if we stand strong against the enemies of peace.<br /><br />Tonight, the United States is doing just that.<br /><br />May God bless and protect the brave men and women who are carrying out this vital mission and their families. And may God bless America.
 

artburr

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Nov 3, 2004
Messages
367
Re: Is this misleading?

If you are satisfied with this, then this discussion is hopeless.
 

jtexas

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Re: Is this misleading?

No, not that, but how about this...<br /><br />"Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons."<br />--George W. Bush September 12, 2002<br /><br />and this...<br /><br />"We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have."<br />--George Bush February 8, 2003<br /><br />and this...<br />"Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent."<br />--George W. Bush January 28, 2003<br /><br />"Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised."<br />--George Bush March 18, 2003<br /><br />and this...<br />"We know where they are. They are in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad."<br />--Donald Rumsfeld March 30, 2003<br /><br />and this...<br />"We'll find them. It'll be a matter of time to do so."<br />--George Bush May 3, 2003<br /><br />and this...<br />"I'm not surprised if we begin to uncover the weapons program of Saddam Hussein -- because he had a weapons program."<br />--George W. Bush May 6, 2003
 

rodbolt

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Joined
Sep 1, 2003
Messages
20,066
Re: Is this misleading?

so why wont Bush come back on the telly and say our intel for going to war was faulty, our Mission accomplished banner was premature. we have however eliminated saddam and opened Iraq to outside terrorists groups and their influence by failing to place enough troops in the region to properly secure the country while we attempt to rebuild the infasrtucture. he could actually admit that by staying the course in the past year or so he was actually on the wrong trail but having realized it we are now going to the right trail. blame a faulty compass or something.<br /> all of us here no the mission was accomplished cause we all saw it on the telly.<br /> but the sad fact is the IED's,unheard of in Iraq prior to 03, are increasing in number and sophistication. the troop strength on the ground are simply not enough,nor have ever been enough, to secure the borders as well as the interior.<br /> Rumsfield estimated the war at 6 weeks to a max of 6 months, I saw that speech as well as the gas will be a dollar a gallon when we get out speech.<br /> plus our dismal and very very costly efforts to attempt the rebuild. anyone care to guess how much has been spent and the results for the expenditure? that coupled with the fact that money will be all gone gone come spring and Cheney and his contractors will be back asking for more of the same.<br /> I dont give much credence to rehub or dumbocrat blog sites or their slanted news casts. I will give credence to reports to congress from the IG office and the GAO. as well as a few other govt agency reports. its all in hard copy and about all the public has to go on.
 

PW2

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Apr 21, 2004
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Re: Is this misleading?

That original speech sounded ok to me. Saddam kicked out the weapons inspectors. He could not be allowed to get away with that.<br /><br />We did in fact get the weapons inspectors back in to do their job.<br /><br />We had Saddam in a box with a no-fly zone effectively removing his ability to be a threat to anyone.<br /><br />That original speech was a Clinton speech, of course and I support it entirely. It was clear, honest and straight forward, and it estabished clear defendable consequences for any action Saddam might have taken, and it was clearly an effective strategy.<br /><br />Unfortunately, we changed the rules midstream, and it has cost us huge amounts in money, and more than 2000 American lives, and made us less safe (according to Brent Skocroft, in the New Yorker, who is hardly a left wing radical.)<br /><br />It is a problem with listening only to those you agree with, and dismissing and destroying any who disagree. It is a position guaranteed to produce bad results.
 

K5WAS

Seaman
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Aug 2, 2005
Messages
69
Re: Is this misleading?

More of the same stale arguments. You left wing radicals forgot to tell us again how Al Gore is the one that actually won the 2000 election.
 

PW2

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Re: Is this misleading?

Say what?<br /><br />Us "left wing radicals" are just, as any experimental scientist would do, observing what has been done, and the results achieved.<br /><br />You right wing wackos keep wanting us to believe the observable results are not what they appear to be, but rather what you want them to be. <br /><br />A fundamental flaw in experimental analysis, I am afraid.
 

QC

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Mar 22, 2005
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Re: Is this misleading?

PW2,<br /><br />I can't recall if you have stated that the Iraq war was based on lies, but it is chanted and repeated daily by many on the left (I did not say all). I believe that Sean posted this to remind those that claim the above that everybody believed Iraq had WMD (I still do) and that the constant repetiition of the Bush lied theme is a lie in itself.<br /><br />BTW, what strategy was "effective"? The one where we attacked them?
 

eeboater

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Jul 19, 2004
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Re: Is this misleading?

Originally posted by Quietcat:<br />I can't recall if you have stated that the Iraq war was based on lies, but it is chanted and repeated daily by many on the left (I did not say all). I believe that Sean posted this to remind those that claim the above that everybody believed Iraq had WMD (I still do) and that the constant repetiition of the Bush lied theme is a lie in itself.
Thank you QC. I couldn't have stated it any better. The double standard that exists, which PW2 showed clearly is unnerving. A several thousand word speech justifying attacking Iraq because they potentially hold WMDs from President Clinton is OK but when President Bush says it... he's a liar.<br /><br />Sean
 

JB

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45,907
Re: Is this misleading?

How much Bush would a Bush basher bash if he had the same (wrong) intelligence and had to decide what to do and then take the buck for it?<br /><br />Ask John Kerry. He had the same intelligence and authorized the war. So did the entire Congress.
 

jtexas

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Re: Is this misleading?

Originally posted by eeboater:<br /> I need some opinions from the people on the left... This is a speech that the president did shortly after we struck Iraq. We have consistently been hearing that we were mislead...
Describe events surrounding a Bush speech ("We have consistently been hearing...") above the words of a different president - don't you find that a little bit, well, misleading?
 

woosterken

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May 18, 2005
Messages
1,431
Re: Is this misleading?

It is just population control!!!take all the young people out of the mix,so that all that is left is the dregs of the barrel.so the country is reduced to a third world walk over by the terriorest imho<br />ken
 

PW2

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Apr 21, 2004
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2,719
Re: Is this misleading?

First of all, Clinton called for strategic air strikes, not the invasion and overthrow of Bush...<br /><br />But did Bush lie? I have no idea. He was certainly mistaken, and even later admitted the 16 words in the SOTU speech should not have been in it...<br /><br />My big problem with this war, aside from the notion there was no compelling reason for it, was he insisted on keeping his inner circle comprised of only those that agreed with him totally, and they appeared to mislead each other by group effort.<br /><br />He fired Larry Lindsay when Lindsay suggested this war could cost upwards of 200 Billion<br /><br />Cheney was on record suggesting that the Iraqis would greet us with flowers as liberators, and they kept saying that somehow Iraq was involved in 9/11<br /><br />Wolfowitz testified to the senate that the oil revenue would pay for the whole deal.<br /><br />Clearly henchmen like Libby clearly tried to destroy any detractors.<br /><br />And I don't know what the generals said privately, but if they all said they could do this with limited troops and on the cheap, they should be all fired for incompetence. (I don't for a minute believe that.)<br /><br />In short, when you approach a situation with only a very limited idea of what could go wrong by listening to only those that share your views, you run huge risks on the chance you were mistaken.<br /><br />I of course was on record opposing this war, and I correctly predicted the course. It didn't take a genius to figure this out.<br /><br />I don't know if Bush purposefully lied or not, and I don't have any idea what the "real" reason for this war was. Maybe someday we will find out.<br /><br />In the meantime, it was horribly planned and executed, and it may be too late to fix that, if it were ever even possible. And those that think a stable democracy is in the offing have been drinking too much kool-aid. It will remain a possibility as long as we maintain the troop presence we have...When we withdraw, the strongest most organized group will take over by force, and who knows what will happen from there. <br /><br />But it ain't going to be a Jeffersonian democracy.<br /><br />And we have 2000 dead Americans, and still counting.<br /><br />And you can be assured Al Qaida is meeting their recruiting goals, even if our Army is not.
 
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