King Cobra issue.....

[cutlas]

OK I got a 89 vip 460 king cobra... All has been well this yr till today ... I was cruising and slowed as I went by some boats anchored so not to wake them. idled by and then went back to plain... not more then 15secs later it was like the motor locked up. When I tried to start it was a Big ca-chunk .... wouldnt even crank ... so I had it towed to shore and we put it on the trailer .... after we let it cool I cranked and it was fine ... so I backed the trailer back in to the water and fired the engine in neutral.. good oil pressure and all but after 30 seconds if Idle .. I seen no water comming out of the exshaust(thru hull). And then it locked up again... and wouldnt crank so I pulled it from the water again.... So I pulled the lower plug on the outdrive and got very little gear lube out... and had alitle metel shavings on the magnet..... then I pulled the second plug and got nothing ... pulled the top plug and got alot of water......... Any ideas.....

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: King Cobra issue.....

Sorry about your problem.

First of all the out drive has nothing to do with water in the engine. (Well it actually could...only because it pumps water TO the engine)


You most likely have 2 problems going on there .

1. You have water in the drive.

You need t to drain the oil (&water) out of the drive and have it pressure checked. (you probably should also pull it and see if the bellows leaked too....Is it kept in the water?)

2. You have (a) cracked manifold/riser(s) and or a failed riser gasket(s).

pull the spark plugs and crank the engine and see if water comes out of the holes.

(Too bad you don't live in the NW I have all that stuff I removed from my boat last year. everything but the engine)

If you have cracked manifolds well....you have decisions to make. ($$$) ......
I already made mine


regards,


Rick

 

[cutlas]

Re: King Cobra issue.....

I think you miss understrude I dont have water in the engine... I have it in the outdrive and the engine seams fine. Im worried the outdrive is locked up due to to much water and too little gear lube...Maybe I exsplained it wrong...

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: King Cobra issue.....

Yup I sure did....

well the other problem will come later then!!

Ok...well you need a drive. It is toast if it "locked up' due to loss of oil....water makes a terrible lubricant.

There's really not much anyone here can do for you unless someone here has a drive and lives close by. You'll probably have to pull the drive (6 nuts and the thru-bolt on the back) and take it somewhere and either get it rebuilt or replaced.

Your other choice is to do what I did. Pull the whole mess out and replace it with another engine/drive. If the engine is ok your best bet to get it running quickly is to probably replace the drive.

Did you keep it in the water all the time or do you trailer it?

 

[Coors]

Re: King Cobra issue.....

Reman units and parts are availible.

 

[Don S]

Re: King Cobra issue.....

Reman units are NOT available, or even gear sets for the dog clutch type King Cobra for the 460's . This also includes the coupler that you have seriously strained, then there is manifolds and risers for the 460. All of the above items are non existant. Except for the few people that have horded couplers and gear sets. You will pay dearly.
You have serious problems for parts on the King Cobras with a 460 Ford engine.

Hopefully I am wrong and Coors will give you some info on where to find the parts. But I doubt it will happen.

 

[Coors]

Re: King Cobra issue.....

Forgot the King part; only regular Cobra is out there.

 

[cutlas]

Re: King Cobra issue.....

No the boat was only left in the water once and that was last nite because we stayed the nite.... after it sits and cools it fires up... so Im still hoping for some kind of rebuild on the out drive Im calling the marina tomarrow to see if they can take it in and look at it .. we have a large marina here who claims to be very familur with the kings and say they have seviced repaired and rebuilt alot of them..( i was filling up there once whiile our on the water and asked). the motor was rebuilt last year so its in good shape and the exshaust manifolds where brand new then .. Never seen salt and never left in thewater... the drive is I guess my fault for not having it checked but since I just bought this thing last month from a marina up north who claimed they serviced it all of its 19 yrs ... said it was good for the season. as fo a repower.. Its not in the budget for me to spend 10grand on a bought i just shelled out almost 9 grand for // so if i cant fix it . then i guess it will get wrapped and stuck in the yard till i can figure out what to do...

 

[Don S]

Re: King Cobra issue.....

Its not in the budget for me to spend 10grand on a bought i just shelled out almost 9 grand for

It's a shame you bought it. OMC went out of buisness about 10 years ago. Aftermarket parts make up all of the new parts available. And aftermarket does not make engine couplers (your's has been damaged because of your drive locking up) or drive gears. (your gears are the problem here) along with manifolds and risers because there just weren't that many 460 Fords with Cobras out there to make it a profitable buisness.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: King Cobra issue.....

I feel for you.

I sure wish you lived close to me. I would be glad to sell you my drive, manifolds, risers props and every other King Cobra thing I still have sitting on the floor (including all the manuals) I'd even help you install it!

I more or less did the same thing. I bought a boat without doing any home work. My brother bought it new. It ran great for many years and when I got it from him it needed a "tune up" every thing was as he said. except the camshaft was flat (knowing him....he couldn't have known that...). My plan was to pull the engine and have it rebuilt by a local machine shop.

Then I found out I couldn't buy manifolds, or a coupler, or some parts for the drive...That ordinarily wouldn't have been a problem since all that stuff was just fine.....

But I like to keep stuff for EVER. (my Suburban tow vehicle is 14 years old....I bought it new and I've had my airplane since 1981) I envisioned having to replace manifolds, coupler down the road because those things HAVE a definite service life (the coupler on my last boat lasted 38 years!!)

My last boat was my dads He bought it new (1966 Marktwain 150 Mercruiser) I kept it 8 years and would still have it my if brother hadn't offered me his boat....go figure....

so......I bought a 97 454 Bravo III from Craigslist out of a local wind damaged Bilgeliner........AND I bolted the whole mess together myself....(IT JUST FLIES NOW!!!!.) ..now I can keep this boat until the cows come home (or until I can't afford the gas!!!) which ever is earlier!


I don't know what to tell you. You could try to find a King Cobra drive on Ebay. they do show up once in a while....There are some people that maybe could rebuild it....I donno....there are just some parts that just are not available.

Sorry about that.


Rick

 

[cutlas]

Re: King Cobra issue.....

Well I appreceate all the comments. Just wish some of them where good...LOL I bought the boat then came home and started looking for boating sites. Found this one and said ... Ohh **** Im in trouble.when i read all the king stuff... Now the wife is crying over the bad investment .. and im pretty sick .... My boat is too heavy for a smallblock so If i repower it will need to be a big bock ... and I know i cant realy get any money for the boat now.... Its is one of the nicest 89 you will ever see .... But with out a outdrive its still just a nice looking dock... Had anytried to get a maching shop or briveline shop to remake a coupler? I am a dragracer and we have had to fab alot of stuff up to make our racecars work.... Maybe I can get some of the brains together to figure how we can make a merc or volvo to work... Or maybe im dreaming . But i surely got to try something and I seen one site sells the drive .. for $7000 ouch.... the boat is insured for 7500 and 1500mfor the trailer so to me spend $7000 on a drive i know will fail sooner or later is not a option.. all i can say at this time is ..this is one very costfull lesson learned...

 

[holgo123]

Re: King Cobra issue.....

I would get on E Bay... There are services to rebuild the couplers now... There is a new 460 coupler on there right now also. I think I would call the folks you bought the boat from and see if the will help also. Pull the drive and figure out what is wrong and what needs to be fixed 1st before going to much farther...

 

[rocket1968]

Re: King Cobra issue.....

Get the correct part number for the coupler and start the search. If you google it it might pick up some of the marine shops and craigslist. I do a bunch of repairs for appliances for my apartment buildings and refuse to buy the repalcement parts from the man. at over inflated prices. Once I get the number, even on discontinued stuff, I will eventually track it down on some site.

Like the other posts said, fix what is broken, and maintain the crap out of it, sell if you can (could be a moral dillema if you disclose parts are tough), but at least enjoy it.

Good hunting!

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: King Cobra issue.....

When I had the 2 drives sitting side by side, It appeared that the splines on the Cobra and Bravo were the "same" it appeared that one could drill the 460 flywheel for a bravo coupler and install one. The bravo bolts to the flywheel like a clutch pressure plate. The Cobra coupler bolts directly to the crankshaft.

When I had the OMC 460 flywheel, I noticed that it wasn't drilled at all for a pressure plate. A machine shop could easily drill the holes on a mill with an indexing plate.

If the splines were the "same" you could use a Bravo coupler. I didn't do any detailed measuring Since I had complete 454 Bravo sitting there ready to bolt in. (By the way A Mercruiser will "BOLT IN" where a Cobra comes out!....you have to change engine mounts etc...)

SO if you find a damaged donor boat with a 454 and a Bravo in it for cheap, BUY IT!

I paid $5K for my complete 454 Bravo III (everything including controls, harness, etc)

There you go.


by the way I also sent you a private message


Good luck.


Rick

Well I appreceate all the comments. Just wish some of them where good...LOL I bought the boat then came home and started looking for boating sites. Found this one and said ... Ohh **** Im in trouble.when i read all the king stuff... Now the wife is crying over the bad investment .. and im pretty sick .... My boat is too heavy for a smallblock so If i repower it will need to be a big bock ... and I know i cant realy get any money for the boat now.... Its is one of the nicest 89 you will ever see .... But with out a outdrive its still just a nice looking dock... Had anytried to get a maching shop or briveline shop to remake a coupler? I am a dragracer and we have had to fab alot of stuff up to make our racecars work.... Maybe I can get some of the brains together to figure how we can make a merc or volvo to work... Or maybe im dreaming . But i surely got to try something and I seen one site sells the drive .. for $7000 ouch.... the boat is insured for 7500 and 1500mfor the trailer so to me spend $7000 on a drive i know will fail sooner or later is not a option.. all i can say at this time is ..this is one very costfull lesson learned...

 

[cutlas]

Re: King Cobra issue.....

well got the call today.... $3000 IF I wanna fix it.. it was low on fluid he said for along while .. it got hot (lower drive) until it whipped a bearing in wich screwed other stuff up and when it locked up naturally it twisted the coupler... he showed me the drive apart and what what damaged and all ... but bottom line is im not sure i want to invst that much... so Im gonna ponder for a few days, and talk to the Boss(wife). I am kicking myself for not finding this site first .. I would have never bought it .. and i know all will fail soner or later but I doubt they will all cost this much.... I have had this boat lest then two month and have tooken it out only a handfull of times.. and like alot of boaters you could say I spent my wad on the boat and really hate to rob peter to pay paul ....so to speak.... so Im half tempted to let it sit or part it out or just sell it cheap ... Its one of the nicest looking 89,s u will ever see and a real clean boat and we love it but .... i got the wrong power..lol O im done ranting . I just got home from the marina so Im still hyper. and frustrasted.. so sorry

 

[Dakota47]

Re: King Cobra issue.....

fix it , then sell it .. lesson learned.

 

[cutlas]

Re: King Cobra issue.....

well that was part of the frustration in me ... Im not gonna just give the boat away... I will fix or repower ... Just not right now.. Im to frustrated to shell out another $3000...

 

[cutlas]

Re: King Cobra issue.....

Ok well after some thinking and really working with the marina who has the boat... Looks like we are leaning heavily toward redriving it with a volvo.... He is a volvo dealer and he has been working on OMC or volvos for 30yrs. He says he has most of the researching down and just a few more things to locate and if all looks right he will beable to put a single prop volvo on for about $4000. or so... So I will know in the next two days.. Either fix the king or retire the king... But keeping the 460 for now ..

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: King Cobra issue.....

I would suggest reconsidering the repower and keeping the 460.....That is if you're going to change the drive, get rid of the 460 too.

I only paid $5000 for the whole 454/Bravo set up. Of course I did all the installation myself and I found a "swinging deal", but they're out there. You'll still have the problem of exhaust manifolds and coupler with the 460. It's fine if they're ok now but a coupler can fail without any warning. The engine has to come out to replace if it does.

I don't want to scare you but that's the reality.

You don't have a lot of good options other than replacement of both the engine and drive. IMHO, If you're just going to replace the drive your cheapest bet might be to probably find a "bolt-on" 1.43:1 ratio King Cobra drive to get it running again......and then start looking for an engine/drive combo.....Volvo or Merc..... for a next or following Winter swap out...




Regards and good luck.


Rick

 

[PBKboater]

Re: King Cobra issue.....

Coupler: $600.00. exhaust manifolds and risers: $385.00(454cu) 460 to 454 exhaust adaptors $420.00. Remanufactured 460cu $2,680.00 another $500.00 on gimble bearing, boot, seals etc... Grand total aprox $4585.00
Boat is back in water and in break in (6.2hrs) An runs like a champ Sooo-farrr.

Hope this helps just to give u an idea if you keep the 460/king

Bayliner 2655 1988 460 Cobra.

Paul