Lets talk some 'Armstrong'

[Bigprairie1]

....anyone a big fan of his?
Personally I'm not...and I didn't watch his talk show confession but I did hear and read about some of the results.
I don't think the guy should be allowed to compete in anything but charity events from here on in...but thats just me.
I'm pretty sure the 'Livestrong Foundation'...which has done some good things and will continue to....was primarily launched for tax shelter purposes when the $$dough started to roll in. Regardless
hopefully the Livestrong Foundation sets a better long term example than 'ol Lance.
I wouldn't give him an inch...but hey, thats just my take at this point.:lol:
The upside....he confessed...and I'm glad he finally manned up....although taking 10-15 years to do so isn't too ground breaking.
all good...any thoughts on this sad sports story guys?
BP

 

[fat fanny]

Re: Lets talk some 'Armstrong'

The only good to any of this would be the Livestrong Foundation! And the bottom line is he cheated! and became a millionaire from it. Just remember what happened to Pete Rose and he never doped!!!!

 

[chriscraft254]

Re: Lets talk some 'Armstrong'

To me its kinda a waste of time to talk about him. He's nothing but a fraud among many. He is likely to go to jail for swearing under oath as well when he was sueing people for saying he was using drugs. "LIE"STRONG foundation.

 

[tomdinwv]

Re: Lets talk some 'Armstrong'

Hopefully, all the people he sued to hide the truth about himself, will sue him and strip him of all the millions he earned by cheating. He should be left with nothing when all this is over.

 

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: Lets talk some 'Armstrong'

Personally I don't care for any guy on a pusher - lies or no lies.
I must ask the Question, who else was doing it?
Probably the majority of those involved in that sport at the time. Probably a few other sports too!
And lets not overlook what goes on in every day life - some pretty serious cheating and dishonesty that makes him look pretty average on the criminal scale.
I am more fearful of many others in our community and their behaviour than this Galah.
Who cares? It will probably resurrect Ophras failing career (and we all need that !!!).

Cheers
Phillip

 

[JB]

Re: Lets talk some 'Armstrong'

I just don't understand why a cheating liar. . . crook. . .gets so much coverage by the media. I have heard and read far too much about it.

 

[aspeck]

Re: Lets talk some 'Armstrong'

I agree with JB. Our media, and us (because we continually talk about the villian), as a nation, glorifies the perpetrator and villifies the hero. Saw a great youtube video by MrCollionNoir on why there are so many mass shootings. The crux of his video was that we can name the perps of most of the last crimes, but we can't name the law-abiding citizens that stopped them. We don't hear near as much about the heroes as we do the criminals. Carries over into all crimes.

If we, as a nation, or maybe even as a world community would come together and stop glorifying evil acts and their doers, then maybe fewer would see that as a way to become a star, a somebody, if you will.

Okay, off my soapbox and back into my hole!:facepalm:

 

[WIMUSKY]

Re: Lets talk some 'Armstrong'

I completely agree Art/JB. Thing is, the good stuff isn't news. If we really thought about it, how many of us would really sit and watch the news every nite if every story was positive? Nothing bad to report. Very few of us....... In a way, it's like driving by a car wreck and not looking. We have to look, it's our nature.....

I've never been one to put sports figures on a pedestal. But Lance "seemed" to be different. I thought we had an athlete the excelled beyond even his own imagination and did it the right way. I thought he was a truly a straight up guy. Not! I even stuck to his side when they first started making allegations of doping. Why? Because he passed every test they threw at him. Not only did he fail himself, he failed his fans and his country. Because he basically represented the US in the Tours. Not to mention the Olympics.

Did he purger himself, yep. Will he go to jail because of it, nope. The statute of limitations has run out. He may find himself fighting new lawsuits however.

I DVR'd the interview. Will watch it eventually. Why? Not sure.........

 

[RogersJetboat454]

Re: Lets talk some 'Armstrong'

We give Air Force pilots drugs (speed) to enhance performance

More precisely Amphetamines or "Go-pills". The benefit is they are more alert, and less likely to be killed, or make a bad move by zoning out. In other words, it keeps them safer.

we use steroids when we think a child isn't growing fast enough

Actually, it's HGH, which isn't a steroid.
If the kid is deficient in HGH, they face a life time of trying to adapt to a bigger world with a shorter stature once they finish growing.

If an athelete who has dedicted their lives to a sport takes them to be his absolute best it's wrong. I don't quite follow that logic.

It's a sanctioned race, with rules that clearly state no performance enhancing drugs are allowed to be used by the competitors. How fast would old Lance have been if he wasn't on something (besides his bike)? Is there a possibility that someone else would have won those races, based solely on the training they did with out doping?

They could make a whole nother class of competition for racers who want to be on the juice, but doesn't that send the wrong message to those aspiring to become a pro cyclist, or any other kind of pro athlete for that matter?

 

[Limited-Time]

Re: Lets talk some 'Armstrong'

Off topic but............... I'll never understand the need to idolize a sports figure for their ability to preform. How great they are or how much money they make has zero impact on my quality of life or standard of living. That said I do enjoy viewing sporting events for what they are. Games, like the ones you played when you were a kid. Before parents got involved, before the need to be "dedicated to and specialize" in a single sport with camps and travel teams. Before any sport was a year round commitment.

 

[rbh]

Re: Lets talk some 'Armstrong'

Society expects winners!

You take NFL and NBL just for example on the juicing.
Our young high school and college athletes train to win in some pretty horrific circumstances that on some occasions kill or cripple them.

But if they win, they are treated as demi gods.

So if failure is not an option, do these athletes have the fortitude to just say no to the juice?

 

[chriscraft254]

Re: Lets talk some 'Armstrong'

More precisely Amphetamines or "Go-pills". The benefit is they are more alert, and less likely to be killed, or make a bad move by zoning out. In other words, it keeps them safer.


Yes, speed by any other name.

Actually, it's HGH, which isn't a steroid.
If the kid is deficient in HGH, they face a life time of trying to adapt to a bigger world with a shorter stature once they finish growing.

Yes, they use drugs to "improve" the person physically. I agree.

It's a sanctioned race, with rules that clearly state no performance enhancing drugs are allowed to be used by the competitors. How fast would old Lance have been if he wasn't on something (besides his bike)? Is there a possibility that someone else would have won those races, based solely on the training they did with out doping?

With that said, the rules are the rules and he broke them and has to face the music for his decisions.

They could make a whole nother class of competition for racers who want to be on the juice, but doesn't that send the wrong message to those aspiring to become a pro cyclist, or any other kind of pro athlete for that matter?

Maybe but, is it really the "wrong message"? My point is in the US we have pills for, well you name it, we have pills for it and they get handed out routinely. If we use the pilot example does that tell those apiring to be a pilot it's ok to use speed for say studying while at the academy?

All I am saying is we draw some very funny lines when it comes to letting adults make decisions about their own bodies and well being.



Just a hypothetical to kick around. Many researchers are working on drugs that make humans smarter and are meeting with some success. Lets jump ahead say 10 years and the drugs are available. Would it be wrong for people in general to use them and only someone with a low IQ should be allowed to take them? What happens when say a mensa member takes them, raises thier IQ another 20 points and then wins the Nobel prise in physics? Does it not count when it's an artifical enhancement? How is that any differnt than doing the same physically.

Here's one for you to ponder, should ANY person that has had plastic surgery (breast enlargement?) be banned from beauty pagents or even being on TV? Doesn't that give every aspiring beauty contestant or TV personality the "wrong" message?

Like I said, we sure draw some funny lines...

I think your missing the point, the race is not fair ( good, old fashioned, sportsmanship). There are rules for a reason. If there wasn't rules, he could show up on a motorcycle and win a bike race. He cheated, not just in the races he performed in, but he cheated everyone that followed him, and he cheated himself. How anyone can believe they are the "best" in the world while they cheated is beyond me. I was an athlete and still pride myself in staying in shape, never once have i felt I needed to prove myself to anyone except myself. Thats where the problem lies, this joker was simply after fame and money. After all those wins, he is nothing but a loser in my book.

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: Lets talk some 'Armstrong'

The man has sealed his own fate and should be left to go quietly into the night.

 

[Bigprairie1]

Re: Lets talk some 'Armstrong'

Some interesting points raised here about the whole idea and meaning of what 'doping' is and why it is not more acceptable. It is interesting that we use and allow drug use in various forms all over the place in society to change our physiology temporarily or long term.
How did the lines get drawn and what was good for us and what wasn't? ie: booze vs. pot, tylenol vs. cocaine, etc.
As for the athletes doping......it would be interesting to see what would happen if the sports authorities and sports institutions (even the Olympics) just said 'hey knock yourselves out...whatever works for you and your game'....bigger, faster, stronger- go man go.:lol:
Is it all bad? (I'm just thinking and asking out loud here and not necessarily choosing the open side of this...at least at this point) and where and why did we draw the line so heavily on athletes and their natural vs. enhanced chemistry? (was this an Olympic thing?)...although I think some steroids raise the possibility of aggression, etc to my recollection.
just my two bits.
BP

 

[RogersJetboat454]

Re: Lets talk some 'Armstrong'

Yes, speed by any other name.

Speed by one name. The name usually given by those who buy it in sandwich baggies rather than prescription bottles.

Yes, they use drugs to "improve" the person physically. I agree.

If your growth was severely stunted, because your body didn't produce a normal amount of a natural hormone, I bet as an adult you'd probably wish you had been "physically improved" by a "drug". And in the end, who does this hurt? NOBODY.

With that said, the rules are the rules and he broke them and has to face the music for his decisions.

Yep, he does.
Back to the point of my previous response, what about all those other cyclist who he was racing that didn't take anything? They could have won, but he took that away from them. They may have been training years for those races...
His decision was a benefit to him, that hurt other people in the process.

Something you can't say for the Pilot who needed help concentrating to stay alive, or the kid who's body chemistry isn't right, and needs medical intervention to help them grow up to be the height they should be.

My point is in the US we have pills for, well you name it, we have pills for it and they get handed out routinely.

Pills are tools, not unlike the current hot topic of guns. Used properly, and for the right reasons, they can be of great benefit. Used for the wrong reasons, and any number of bad things can happen.

If we use the pilot example does that tell those apiring to be a pilot it's ok to use speed for say studying while at the academy?

Does the aspiring pilot at the academy suffer from ADD? Are the consequences of getting a bad grade at the academy the same as trying to flying a plane while being shot at? Are the potential side-effects of long term abuse worth the good grades?

Just a hypothetical to kick around. Many researchers are working on drugs that make humans smarter and are meeting with some success. Lets jump ahead say 10 years and the drugs are available. Would it be wrong for people in general to use them and only someone with a low IQ should be allowed to take them? What happens when say a mensa member takes them, raises thier IQ say 20 points and then wins the Nobel prise in physics? Does it not count when it's an artifical enhancement? How is that any differnt than doing the same physically.

What are the side effects, short and long term? What happens when you stop taking them?

Here's one for you to ponder, should ANY person that has had plastic surgery (breast enlargement?) be banned from beauty pagents or even being on TV? Doesn't that give every aspiring beauty contestant or TV personality the "wrong" message?
Like I said, we sure draw some funny lines...

That's up to who ever runs the pageants.
Do you need a prescription for breast augmentation? What are the long term side-effects of breast augmentation, VS performance enhancing drugs? Does having larger breasts in a beauty pageant (a judged competition) increase your odds of winning equally as much as having more strength and endurance in a competition where the finish line is the judge?

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: Lets talk some 'Armstrong'

The man has sealed his own fate and should be left to go quietly into the night.

and without any fan fair too.......

 

[korygrandy]

Re: Lets talk some 'Armstrong'

Oprah and Lance needed more publicity as there quality of life has been declining. Celebrities make money off publicity, good or bad and heck a lot even create and entice scandals and in fact the bigger celebs even pay paparazzi crews to "show-up" and create buzz.

As for what he did wrong, well I think its detrimental to his sport and the aspiring athletes and the foundation he was involved with. Livestrong is in a situation, new sponser who doesn't dope, now the world knows who they are and they get to file civil suits... not saying they are by any means "winning" but they are getting a lot of the non-negative publicity.

 

[JRJ]

Re: Lets talk some 'Armstrong'

Now that he's out, I'm really disappointed the USPS blew so much money sponsoring him. What a waste.

 

[aspeck]

Re: Lets talk some 'Armstrong'

Now that he's out, I'm really disappointed the USPS blew so much money sponsoring him. What a waste.

Lawsuit already in the works to get money back ... but i was never happy they were a sponsor anyway ... hurting for money and spending on sports sponsorship???

 

[WIMUSKY]

Re: Lets talk some 'Armstrong'

Oprah and Lance needed more publicity as there quality of life has been declining. Celebrities make money off publicity, good or bad and heck a lot even create and entice scandals and in fact the bigger celebs even pay paparazzi crews to "show-up" and create buzz.

Boy, isn't that the truth.

Lance isn't going away anytime soon. Admitting guilt was the first step for an attempt at a comeback. At what level is yet to be determined, if at any.........

What about people who put their faith into Lance. People who have physical ailments. People who said,"Lance was able to overcome adversity, so can I". What about kids(yes, they're people too) who struggle with illnesses? How many of them had posters on their bedroom walls as a reminder that maybe they can overcome their illness like Lance did? How many people/kids hopes were just crushed when they found out he was a fake? Yes, he had that kind of power. Sure he overcame cancer and road Tours which "was" a great story, but.........................