Losing coolant, hesitation, general nonesense

diceybrew

Cadet
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Messages
10
I am brand new to marine engines, and am by no means qualified to tinker with them. Still, I enjoy learning, am willing to get my hands dirty, and have some problems I need to resolve.

I bought an older boat. It has a 4 cylinder 224ci/3.7l 1985 Mercruiser rated at 170 hp. Boat ran OK when I first took it out. Starting was a bit tricky, but only because depressing the "throttle only" button required a good thump from the side of my (now bruised) fist. I've temporarily solved that problem while I think of a better solution... Only other issue was that opening the throttle wide open from low 1,000 RPM caused significant hesitation or the engine just cut out. Able to hit 35mph at 4,300 RPM WOT. No idea whether that's acceptable. 19ft bow rider, very calm conditions, 21p lightly damaged prop.

The real problems kicked in on boat ride two. Went for a 2 and a half hour ride on the river. Boat ran fine (same hesitation issue). Then, halfway home, it started to surge/hesitate at about 3,000 RPM and finally died. Tried starting it for about 3 minutes. Gave up for 10 minutes. Got it started. Ran it in neutral at 2,000 RPM for 3 minutes. Put it in gear. It died. Repeated three or four times. Got boat to move. After some exciting lock/barge traffic/starting troubles, got the boat back on the trailer and opened the drain plug. Lots of water, at least two or three gallons (plug did not get pulled after the first outing). Noticed some coolant content in the water coming out of the drain plug.

Seller provided new (needed) distributor cap. Cap replaced, timing adjusted to 6 BTDC.

Round three. All day on the lake. Boat ran OK for most of the day (2 hours skiing/tubing, 1 hour off, 2 hours tubing/skiing, 2 hours off, 30 minutes tubing, skiing, 30 mins off, 2 hours skiing/tubing, 30 minutes off). Light hesitation when opening throttle wide, but easing it over 1,800 RPM and then opening it fully helped a lot. After the schedule of activity itemized above, took the boat out for skiing. Lots of hesitation, no power, full throttle was uncomfortably rough and couldn't beat 15 mph. Pulled the boat off the water, drained lots of water from bilge, noticed more coolant in water, put boat back into water. Still rough, still slow, still no power. Engine unpredictable had 10 - 15 second spurts of power, etc.

Refilled coolant after round 2 (river trip), estimate that I needed to put about half a gallon into the reservoir above the exhaust manifold. Filled it to about 1/2 inch below the top of the reservoir.

I am running compression tests tonight and will check how much coolant I lost at the lake.

Also noticed a 1/8 inch gap between the transom and the top of the stern drive transom plate. Could the water be getting in here? Will tightening the nuts on the bolts inside the transom close that gap?

Also noticed very damaged exhaust bellows between transom plate and bell housing. Will this help resolve any of these issues?

In general, please help. Any insights?
 

diceybrew

Cadet
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Messages
10
Re: Losing coolant, hesitation, general nonesense

The compression tests showed #1 = 110, #2 = 105, #3 = 60, #4 = 105.

Noticed that coolant was dripping from water pump housing on front of engine. Actually, noticed that coolant was pooling above the water pump. Can't figure out exactly how it is getting there, but suspect it must be forcing it's way out of the pump, or leaking from above and collecting there. From here, it looks like it works its way down and drips off the lip of the oil pan.

The spark plugs all looked pretty similar. Nothing special about the plug in #3.

3/4 gallon coolant to fill reservoir.

So, any ideas about how to proceed? If the block/head is cracked, is it worth trying to fix anything else?
 

rndcomp

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jun 24, 2007
Messages
88
Re: Losing coolant, hesitation, general nonesense

dicey, I have a similar boat with similar engine with similar problems. First, I will say that I am not a mechanic, but I have asked a lot of the same questions that you are asking. As for the #3 compression, this is a little low. Have you tried to put a tablespoon of oil in the cylinder and re-run the compression test. This may help to seal the rings and might bump the number up a bit.

As for the coolant leak, I am living this now. What is happening is you are losing coolant from your weep hole which is a sign that your front cam seal is bad. This needs to be fixed before the rear cam seal gives which can cause coolant to get into your oil.

I hope that this has helped somewhat, and to all of the real 'experts' out there, please validate that I am not giving bad information.

Thanks!
 

mbjeeper

Cadet
Joined
Aug 29, 2006
Messages
19
Re: Losing coolant, hesitation, general nonesense

Has ANYBODY successfully repaired the cam seal problem on a 3.7L?

I am on my second set of seals and still leaking (I have installed sleeves on the cam)
Getting frustrating...
Greg
Moundsville, WV
mbjeeper@aol.com
 

diceybrew

Cadet
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Messages
10
Re: Losing coolant, hesitation, general nonesense

Sounds promising...

One thing I am not sure about is how the coolant is ending up above the front cover. I'd expect to find it beneath the weep hole and in the bilge, but what would cause it to end up above the front cover. The coolant is pooling above the brown patch:
100_4134.JPG


Also, I noticed some residue on the front of the water pump cover that I'm trying to understand... It looks like rusty water passed over the cover, leaving the residue behind:
100_4138.JPG


Finally, here's a shot of the lower portion of the front cover. I think the drain screw is just peaking out from behind the stator cover on the lower right, and the whole thing looks like it has been doused in dirty water.
100_4142.JPG


So, is this definitely still the water pump seals? How did the coolant get above the front cover?
 

Don S

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Aug 31, 2004
Messages
62,321
Re: Losing coolant, hesitation, general nonesense

I wouldn't do anything with that engine untill you fix the compression problem.
While the 60 is WAY low, the other 3 are only border line. You should be seeing 130 to 150.
Doing a leak down test will tell you where your problems are at.

With an 1/8" gap at the top of the transom shield, my guess is the transom is rotted out.

With a dead 470 and a rotten transom, you might consider looking for another boat, cause you are going to be throwing a lot of money at those repairs.
 

mike176

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Feb 18, 2007
Messages
202
Re: Losing coolant, hesitation, general nonesense

I just got out of a 3.7 with all the same exact probles as yours, take my advise and get rid of that thing!! I about $2000 deep in repairs and called it quits. My 3.7 had all the same runing symptoms as yours and the cam seal leak. The cam seal leak was about $90 for the seal and gasket kit and a few hours work, that part was not so bad. Looks like you also have some leaking hoses. Just cut it and run.
 

diceybrew

Cadet
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Messages
10
Re: Losing coolant, hesitation, general nonesense

Thanks for everyone's feedback. Two Saturday's ago, I replaced the cam seals. Engine has stopped leaking coolant, but still has the hesitation thing.

I took the boat to the local marina to have them look at it. Right off the bat they said that the boat had valve problems, which they said fit the description I offered of the boat's performance. They got different compression readings than I did (I have since discovered my guage has an odd sort of a leak), but the readings still indicate a problem. They run 150 in #1, 145 in #2, 130 in #3 and just over 100 in #4. They got the readings on the first 2 cylinders after three turns of the engine, while the readings on the back two required 6 turns.

They said that once you get into a valve job, you might as well think about rebuilding the engine, although they were quick to call the exercise a "bit of a crap shoot". They said they rebuilt two 470s last year, and one blew 10 hours after the rebuild. They could only find one crowd that would rebuild the 470 and offer a warranty, and that the ballpark price was $2,000 excluding pulling the engine, etc.

Paid $3,000 for the boat, with a pretty decent ShoreLand'r trailer. I'm starting to think the apparent consensus that I cut and run is the best path forward.

Any opinions on how best to get out of this and still recover some cash? Part it out? Sell it as is?
 

Haut Medoc

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jun 29, 2004
Messages
10,645
Re: Losing coolant, hesitation, general nonesense


Keep the trailer, part out the boat.....
Buy a boat that needs a trailer.....
Stay away from the 470 or any of it's incarnations....;)
 

95yj

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
279
Re: Losing coolant, hesitation, general nonesense

It's amazing how many posts in here contain "470" and "run away" in the same sentence.
 
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