Manual locking hubs on 4X4's

[bowman316]

So I have an F-150 with manual locking hubs on the front. I was wondering what would happen if I put it in 4WD, and only locked on of the 2 front hubs. Would only the one front wheel spin, of would the differental make the unlocked drive shaft spin, not spinning either front wheel?

I tired this once, and neither front wheel spun, when i locked just the driver side hub. I am pretty sure that my truck does not have a limited slip differental.

 

[puddle jumper]

Re: Manual locking hubs on 4X4's

I am not sure what your asking. Are you asking if you only locked one hub in would only one wheel spin(no nether wheel will not spin) or are you asking if you lock the hubs in on both sides why only one wheel spins( Its how a non limited slip dif works)

 

[DECK SWABBER 58]

Re: Manual locking hubs on 4X4's

Why in the world would you want to do this????

The purpose of a "differential" is to allow each wheel to turn at different speeds while turning a corner. The outside wheel will be going faster then the inside wheel.

Locking the manual hubs mechanically locks each axle (wheel) to the differential and to each other, neither wheel can then turn independently of the other. This distribute's equal torque to each wheel. That is why the truck "hops" when you turn sharp. In a non-locked diff. the most torque will always go to the wheel with least resistance, ie: the one on ice will spin first and you won't go anywhere.

Posi-traction is similar to locking BOTH hubs, torque is equally distributed to both wheels, but when you turn a corner the clutch plates allow the two wheels to turn at different speeds.

If I understand what your asking, I guess if your on something slippery the unlocked wheel will spin first.

Interesting question, never tried it. I don't think this would be at all good for the differential though.

 

[Bifflefan]

Re: Manual locking hubs on 4X4's

Why in the world would you want to do this????

The reason you would do this is called a "Dig". On a truck with locked diffs you can turn the wheels and unlock one hub and the truck will pivit around on the unlocked wheel. Basiclly you can turn a full 180 inside the lenght of the truck. Very handy when rock crawling.
With out lockers it will do nothing. It just puts all the power to the free hub.

Just as a side note, on Urban Attack Vechicles, ie 4x4's that are street driven 99% of the time. its a good idea about once a month throw it in 4x4 and leave the hubs unlocked (if equiped) just to keep the oil rolling around. These parts die of none use more than abuse.

 

[Bifflefan]

Re: Manual locking hubs on 4X4's

Locking the manual hubs mechanically locks each axle (wheel) to the differential and to each other, neither wheel can then turn independently of the other. This distribute's equal torque to each wheel. That is why the truck "hops" when you turn sharp.

As for this part, you are exactly wrong.
The hubs do lock each wheel to the diff but not to the other wheel. That is what the diff is for, so they can still rotate independent of each other. Other wise you could not turn.
As for it hopping that is the front vs the rear trying to go different speeds. there is no "differental" in the transfer case. They are locked, unless its a full time 4x4 or all wheel drive.

 

[bowman316]

Re: Manual locking hubs on 4X4's

yea, biffle is right. People often confuse manual locking hubs with differential lockers. I was just reading about that today. I just hate how my truck doesn't even have a limited slip. I get one rear wheel barley spinning in mud, and i gotta throw it in 4WD.

 

[DECK SWABBER 58]

Re: Manual locking hubs on 4X4's

As for this part, you are exactly wrong.
The hubs do lock each wheel to the diff but not to the other wheel. That is what the diff is for, so they can still rotate independent of each other. Other wise you could not turn.
As for it hopping that is the front vs the rear trying to go different speeds. there is no "differental" in the transfer case. They are locked, unless its a full time 4x4 or all wheel drive.

I beg to differ with you. On my 84 F150 with non posi trac diff's if I lock the front hub's both front wheels are locked together with the front driveshaft.
Their is no "differential action" in the front. The only thing the transfer case does is engage the front driveshaft. The rear diff. works just like a 2x2, both wheel's spin independently of each other and has nothing to do with the front.

Full time or awd has a viscious coupling in the transfer case that allow's the "slip" when turning.

 

[bowman316]

Re: Manual locking hubs on 4X4's

i know my truck sure handles like a tank in 4WD. may be because if the locked front wheels. You feel a real difference in the steering wheel.

 

[skargo]

Re: Manual locking hubs on 4X4's

I beg to differ with you. On my 84 F150 with non posi trac diff's if I lock the front hub's both front wheels are locked together with the front driveshaft.
Their is no "differential action" in the front. The only thing the transfer case does is engage the front driveshaft. The rear diff. works just like a 2x2, both wheel's spin independently of each other and has nothing to do with the front.

Full time or awd has a viscious coupling in the transfer case that allow's the "slip" when turning.

Sorry, gotta back biffle fan here.

Those wheels are NOT locked, they are what's considered an open differential. My tow rig is 4wd, it's a dodge ram, has an LSD(limited slip differential) in the rear, but the front is open.

On my rock crawler, I installed lockers front and rear, now on that rig, when the hubs are locked, the front wheels are locked together, a HUGE difference. Trust me, I've owned offroad rigs with lockers, and tow rigs with open diffs for years.

Here is a simple video, note how the freewheeling "spider gears"(white gears) allow the 2 axles to rotate INDEPENDENTLY of each other
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Md0vrDyU_yg&feature=player_embedded#

 

[bowman316]

Re: Manual locking hubs on 4X4's

can you get a factory pick-up with a locking differental?
not a limited slip, but one step better...
I think GMC has it on their seira? Or is that just a limited slip?

 

[skargo]

Re: Manual locking hubs on 4X4's

can you get a factory pick-up with a locking differental?
not a limited slip, but one step better...
I think GMC has it on their seira? Or is that just a limited slip?

I think some offer some type of locker with manual control. I know my current truck with a limited slip does WAY better than my previous truck, almost identical except for a gas engine and open diff.

I think you only need a true locker offroad, from what I've seen.

 

[bowman316]

Re: Manual locking hubs on 4X4's

I HATE when one wheel is up the the hub in mud, and the other is not moving. I bet a limited slip would be enough, but I heard they can still act like an open diff, if one wheel is in really soft mud.
But prob good enough for most off road situations.
you have a gmc scott?

 

[DECK SWABBER 58]

Re: Manual locking hubs on 4X4's

Sorry, gotta back biffle fan here.

Those wheels are NOT locked, they are what's considered an open differential. My tow rig is 4wd, it's a dodge ram, has an LSD(limited slip differential) in the rear, but the front is open.

Here is a simple video, note how the freewheeling "spider gears"(white gears) allow the 2 axles to rotate INDEPENDENTLY of each other
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Md0vrDyU_yg&feature=player_embedded#

The "open" differential end's when the front hubs are locked, locking both wheel's (axle shaft's) to the spider gears and to each other. The front diff. is no longer "open". Your dodge ram has an open diff. until you put it in 4 whl. drive. How does your truck turn in 2 whl. dr./vs 4 whl. dr??? In 4 whl. both front wheel's are locked together unless something is wrong with your truck.

The "simple" video is not showing a 4X4.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Manual locking hubs on 4X4's

I beg to differ with you. On my 84 F150 with non posi trac diff's if I lock the front hub's both front wheels are locked together with the front driveshaft.
Their is no "differential action" in the front.
The "open" differential end's when the front hubs are locked, locking both wheel's (axle shaft's) to the spider gears and to each other. The front diff. is no longer "open". Your dodge ram has an open diff. until you put it in 4 whl. drive. How does your truck turn in 2 whl. dr./vs 4 whl. dr??? In 4 whl. both front wheel's are locked together unless something is wrong with your truck.

Nope,.... You're wrong, assuming your 84 Ford still has the original Front Differential...

If it is still original,+ you experince Hopping when the hubs are locked, you probably have Bad/ Dry U-joints in the front driveline...
Or, a Bad front differential...

Ford has Never put anything but an Open differential in the front end of their 4x4s... Stock...

 

[mla2ofus]

Re: Manual locking hubs on 4X4's

I beg to differ with you. On my 84 F150 with non posi trac diff's if I lock the front hub's both front wheels are locked together with the front driveshaft.
Their is no "differential action" in the front. The only thing the transfer case does is engage the front driveshaft. The rear diff. works just like a 2x2, both wheel's spin independently of each other and has nothing to do with the front.

Full time or awd has a viscious coupling in the transfer case that allow's the "slip" when turning.

Take your rear driveline out and see if both front wheels spin in the mud w/ it in 4WD!!!
Mike

 

[Bifflefan]

Re: Manual locking hubs on 4X4's

i know my truck sure handles like a tank in 4WD. may be because if the locked front wheels. You feel a real difference in the steering wheel.

The reason for this is one rear wheel and one front are locked together. They cant turn at different speeds causing the drive train and tires to bind. That is what makes them "hop". If you turn sharp left you fell the bind starting then if turn right back right the bind will decrease. This is on hard surface roads. In the dirt or mud, the soft surface gives and you feel much less of the binding.
This is the exact reason your owners manual says dont driver on the hwy with it in 4x4 for long periods of time. Damage can occur from the repeated binding of the drive train.
As for the front or rear being locked diffs. This is really for the hard core off roaders. They are not to friendly for street driving and tend only to go in s straight line when trying to turn. Im not going to go into all the details of these right now. Sufice it to say an open or "limited slip" diff is your friend for street driving and most everyday off excursions.

 

[skargo]

Re: Manual locking hubs on 4X4's

I HATE when one wheel is up the the hub in mud, and the other is not moving. I bet a limited slip would be enough, but I heard they can still act like an open diff, if one wheel is in really soft mud.
But prob good enough for most off road situations.
you have a gmc scott?

I have a Cummins powered Dodge Ram 2500.

The "open" differential end's when the front hubs are locked, locking both wheel's (axle shaft's) to the spider gears and to each other. The front diff. is no longer "open". Your dodge ram has an open diff. until you put it in 4 whl. drive. How does your truck turn in 2 whl. dr./vs 4 whl. dr??? In 4 whl. both front wheel's are locked together unless something is wrong with your truck.

The "simple" video is not showing a 4X4.

Wrong, you obviously missed the whole point of the video, The spider gears freewheel, allowing both axles to differentiate. Sorry, you do not understand how it works.

The reason you feel drag while turning in 4wd is because the u-joints on any given side bind up, not because the fronts are locked together.

Beleive me, if you drove my offroad rock crawler, you'd really feel the difference, and that's the reason I put full hydraulic steering on the rig.

Not sure why y0u are debating this point, I do know what I am talking about here If you look at the video I posted previously, it shows how a differential works in the simplest of terms.

My rig is locked in the front in 4wd

This is my tow rig, and NOTHING is wrong with it, it has an open front diff, just like ALL street trucks.

 

[skargo]

Re: Manual locking hubs on 4X4's

OK, go here, and look at the 2 animated gifs, it SHOWS exactly what I am saying.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential2.htm

 

[bowman316]

Re: Manual locking hubs on 4X4's

so there is no way that both front wheels will spin in the mud?
unless you turn the wheels and change the pressure maybe?

 

[rbh]

Re: Manual locking hubs on 4X4's

yup-
hubs are there just to lock your wheels to your axles, what ever you do in the pumpkin/diff is going to tell the wheels what to do.