Max swells for 20' cuddy?

[Fordiesel69]

Some say 4' swells max, and others tough it out in 6-8. But for a newbie boater, what kind of swells would be max for a boat like this? It would be a 200HP 5.0L if that matters.

And also for a 19' with a 120hp 4cyl (obviously less as it can't motor thru the bigger waves.

I know open bow is much less, but I am not planning on buying one.

 

[grahamh]

Re: Max swells for 20' cuddy?

As long as the swells aren't too steep, you'll probably be riding over them, not through them. I've been out in 8 foot swells in a 16 footer, but it's not as bad as you think once you get the hang of it.

I would guess that a 20 footer might plow through them a little bit more, rather than riding over. Just make sure you get a feel for your boat before you go out in any sort of swells. A boat can handle more than you think if you know how to handle it right.

 

[windsors03cobra]

Re: Max swells for 20' cuddy?

I was in some 4' today on lake Michigan and that was pretty scary, saw a 30' cabin cruiser and 35' sailboat both also rolling around pretty good.
20-30 mph winds pushing up from the south really kick up some serious waves here.
We went a half mile from the river to the boat launch and that was a helluva ride on the old 18' Starcraft, took one wave over the bow and windscreen other than that it actually went well. My wife I should have trimmed up in order to keep the bow higher so waves wound not come over the bow again but after that first big wave the waves were smaller and further away from the bow, if I ever encounter junk like that again I would be willing to try trimming up for bow lift.

I would say 4' max, your on Erie right ? I think 6'-8' would have a person sharting their pants and maybe dieing.
Funny thing about lake Michigan here today, I could take a picture and most would say, that lake isn't rough

 

[grahamh]

Re: Max swells for 20' cuddy?

Yeah, I was thinking of more gentle, ocean swells, without the wind. Wind plus swells is much worse, the swells get much steeper.

 

[RICHARD5]

Re: Max swells for 20' cuddy?

Yeah, I was thinking of more gentle, ocean swells, without the wind.

Assuming no wind condition, it's wave period + height which are your considerations. Plus, hull length and boat speed. At a certain speed you wouldn't have a problem in swells of even 40' or larger. Really.

In larger swells you may feel a pressure change and the boat may react to that airflow (ie, wind) cause by that pressure difference 'tween trough and peak. Still, it would be nominal until the winds kick up.

I would take a 20' cuddy into 20' and larger. Wait...I have, over inshore shallows too.

Wind plus swells is much worse, the swells get much steeper.

Yes, it is the seas which can cause problems. Even if they are short and choppy, you may have varying winds (speed and direction, ie gusts) which make handling more difficult. With a current set opposing the winds then you may have difficulties in maneuvering.

Again, it's speed which is your best tool. Jocky the throttle as required and in conjunction with steering. If it got really bad, you throw out a drougue and heave. Or maintain minimal steering speed.

EDIT: in short and choppy, pick your course. It's gonna' be a cork screw. Depending on wave ht and swell patterns, try to find the best course to ride the backs of the dominant swell and get into port or stand off from the area causing the chop. Bottom contours factor greatly here. Usually there is a current setting up the short chop.

Once while out on Lake Powell a storm blew up. The winds were fierce out of the NE but the prevailing winds had been out of the SW. Running before the storm we ran smack into the 4-6 waves set by the prevailing winds. I chose a heading off to the N while other boats went direct to the marina. I ran about twice the distance over ground and still beat them back to the marina. This because I was able to put the waves to athawrt which made for a smoother and faster ride. Don't fixate on a straight line navigation in those conditions.

Willard Bascom's book, Waves and Beaches is a good read. I think it's out of print and it's not about boats per se but it is a good reference for understanding swell patterns.

 

[marine4003]

Re: Max swells for 20' cuddy?

Said it before..and i'll say it again..its more important to figure out what the PILOT can handle,not what the boat can handle. new owners with little or no offshore experience have no business offshore in heavy seas without someone onboard who has experience. An experienced captain can handle 10' waves in a 20' bowrider, whereas an in-experienced capt. will swamp the same craft in 4' sea's. Never assume because the boat hull can handle it..the capt. can.

 

[justchange]

Re: Max swells for 20' cuddy?

So, we shouldn't use the formula of 1' of boat length for 1' of wave?

 

[RICHARD5]

Re: Max swells for 20' cuddy?

Said it before..and i'll say it again..its more important to figure out what the PILOT can handle,not what the boat can handle.

Hear hear.

 

[BLU LUNCH]

Re: Max swells for 20' cuddy?

Said it before..and i'll say it again..its more important to figure out what the PILOT can handle,not what the boat can handle. new owners with little or no offshore experience have no business offshore in heavy seas without someone onboard who has experience. An experienced captain can handle 10' waves in a 20' bowrider, whereas an in-experienced capt. will swamp the same craft in 4' sea's. Never assume because the boat hull can handle it..the capt. can.

You hit right on the head............
Nothing equals experience......

 

[nitsuj]

Re: Max swells for 20' cuddy?

I agree with the above. It's all about the captain. I was on lake erie for the first time this summer. The waves scared the heck out of me. I'm not experienced in big water boating, I'm a river boater. A better captain would have probably had no problem in the water I was in. The waves on Erie just seemed different to me. Like there was no pattern. They came at irregular intervals and from seemingly all directions. I'm sure it's not always like that, but it was a slightly windy day and I found out later that lots of people didn't go out because the water was too choppy. I spend a few minutes in the lake and quickly headed into the bay.

I've always heard that Erie can be dangerous. And I believe it. One minute it wasn't bad. The next you were getting rocked pretty good. So it would seem that the captain and the conditions make all the difference. 3' waves on Erie may be different than 6' waves on the Atlantic. And a guy who can capably run a boat on the rivers may be out of his league on Erie. (Thats me!)

 

[steddy]

Re: Max swells for 20' cuddy?

I agree with much of what has been said. My 17' bow rider is more controllable in heavy seas, especially when the waves are denser and sharper. My buddy has a 19' cuddy that takes more waves over the bow then my bowrider, because he can't lift his bow as quickly as I can. However, I noticed that I need to pay attention ALL THE TIME to what is going on, otherwise I will be the one taking on all the waves, since his bow is up higher in the air.

In 6-8' waves, my bowrider bobs around like a cork. There is so much distance between the peaks and troughs, the whole boat moves up and down with the wave, and doesn't feel like it is ever in danger of taking on any water. For a fact, I'm more comfortable in 6-8' than 4-6' waves, since the frequency between the waves seems to be longer in the larger waves. What sends me back into port is white water, when the wind starts picking up. Then, the waves are MUCH less predictable (for how ever predictable waves can be), and therefore more dangerous. Also, the wind blows the little lightweight boat all over the place.

 

[BLU LUNCH]

Re: Max swells for 20' cuddy?

I agree with much of what has been said. My 17' bow rider is more controllable in heavy seas.

In 6-8' waves, my bowrider bobs around like a cork. There is so much distance between the peaks and troughs, the whole boat moves up and down with the wave, and doesn't feel like it is ever in danger of taking on any water. For a fact, I'm more comfortable in 6-8' than 4-6' waves.

Man you have a lot to learn......................
I hope we don't read about one of your I'm comfortable trips in the paper.

 

[marine4003]

Re: Max swells for 20' cuddy?

Man you have a lot to learn......................
I hope we don't read about one of your I'm comfortable trips in the paper.

No doubt, the main problem with "recreation"boats (inshore) is the design, most 17-25 foot family boats aren't equipped to handle heavy water,unlike fishing style boats which have self-bailing decks and larger bilge pumps,more often than not powered with an outboard,if you take water over the gunnel,your still maneuverable and floating.But with cuddys or bow riders the power is more often inboard,smaller bilge pumps,wiring is set lower,Take water on and your screwed,and i don't mean just over the bow,heavy seas can and do come at you from every direction,so having a cuddy is marginally better than bowrider..But your still having to overcome the disadvantage of smaller bilge pump and a chunk of iron aft.Reading the waves,and throttling accordingly is a practice that can only come from experience.CG captains license holder for 12 years , boat delivery captain for 5 and i still make mistakes. When theres even a little doubt..stay inshore,its not worth it.

 

[RICHARD5]

Re: Max swells for 20' cuddy?

No doubt, the main problem with "recreation"boats (inshore) is the design, most 17-25 foot family boats aren't equipped to handle heavy water,unlike fishing style boats which have self-bailing decks and larger bilge pumps,more often than not powered with an outboard,if you take water over the gunnel,your still maneuverable and floating.But with cuddys or bow riders the power is more often inboard,smaller bilge pumps,wiring is set lower,Take water on and your screwed,and i don't mean just over the bow,heavy seas can and do come at you from every direction,so having a cuddy is marginally better than bowrider..But your still having to overcome the disadvantage of smaller bilge pump and a chunk of iron aft.Reading the waves,and throttling accordingly is a practice that can only come from experience.CG captains license holder for 12 years , boat delivery captain for 5 and i still make mistakes. When theres even a little doubt..stay inshore,its not worth it.

Now we're picking fly poop out of pepper. And in that light, I submit;

Growing up in Hawaii we always had boats. More often than not us kids would take the little runabout to a neighboring island. 17' with 25 HP Johnson. Or we'd take the 26' whaleboat (open hull with the Buddha one lung pulling double duty for mechanical bilge pump).

Perhaps it is not fair to mention the whaleboat. That thing was the most seaworthy boat I've ever been on.

Anyway, those channels between the islands are known for swift currents and usually opposing seas. The only swamping in 15 yrs occured when I was a wee one in me mother's arms.

In NC, speeding across Pamlico Sound heading to Cape Fear or OB...same set up, same results. In FLA running out of Tampa to the Keys (yes, you read that right) in the same set up. In CA, running from San Diego to Nicholas, then on to Catalina in a open small craft. No worries and confident in our craft. Running down the coast from Morro Bay, CA to Point Conception in a 19' runabout. No problem (only age would keep me from doing that again).

It's the master, not the boat. Skill and preparedness wins the day. The proper boat helps, of course. Or maybe it's just dumb luck.

However, I join you in exercising extreme caution when posting this on the internet. You never know who's reading and liable to be bolstered by something they read on the 'net. In that respect, it is far better to advise that people should not run outside of the conditions which they are most familiar.

 

[RICHARD5]

Re: Max swells for 20' cuddy?

Man you have a lot to learn......................
I hope we don't read about one of your I'm comfortable trips in the paper.

I agree with you but I wonder how different my childhood would have been with all this talk of being safer. That prompts me to encourage people to go out and expand their envelope if they so desire.

Have a blast and don't die and the skipper owns the responsibility of providing his passengers comfort and safety at all times. This responsibility cannot be delegated.

 

[marine4003]

Re: Max swells for 20' cuddy?

However, I join you in exercising extreme caution when posting this on the internet. You never know who's reading and liable to be bolstered by something they read on the 'net. In that respect, it is far better to advise that people should not run outside of the conditions which they are most familiar.

agree with you but I wonder how different my childhood would have been with all this talk of being safer. That prompts me to encourage people to go out and expand their envelope if they so desire.

Have a blast and don't die and the skipper owns the responsibility of providing his passengers comfort and safety at all times. This responsibility cannot be delegated.

Uhhhmmm, isn't that being rather ambiguous, first you say don't follow advice given on the IN..Then you say go for it.....

Fly poop non withstanding, given limited experience a center console is marginally safer offshore than a bow rider or even a cuddy..That was my point..

 

[Dick Sorensen]

Re: Max swells for 20' cuddy?

Why don't you try the boat in a 2 footer situation first? Then try it in a 2 footer with a blowing hard? See how it handles those situations. I don't any experienced skipper that goes out in bad weather unless he's running a ferry! Get some actual sea experience. One day you'll get your wish....even if you hadn't planned on it.