Mercruiser GM 165 - Too far gone?

[garycolwill]

​

​
Hello,

I've just taken the head off of a mercruiser GM 165 that was seized and am posting pics of the middle two cylinders. They are pretty rusted and pitted. My question, as a very inexperienced shade tree mechanic, is "Can this be saved, or is it too far gone?

Thanks,

Gary

PS - what's the best way to rotate this engine manually? doesn't seem to be an obvious and easy way to do it except with the starter...

 

[jbuote]

Hey Gary! :welcome:

Can't see the pics yet..
Post 2 more comments here, then try the pics.. (min 3 posts to put up pics)..
Pics have to be <700kb in size, though I find best results with around 400kb or so..

As for manually turning, without seeing it (and I'm no pro here...) there may be 3 threaded holes in your harmonic balancer/front crank pulley that you could put bolts in and use them as leverage to try to rotate WITHOUT forcing it..

Perhaps just moving the belt(s) might be a better try..

Or better yet, wait till the pics show, and the pro's will better advise.. lol
Just grasping straws here..

Post 2 more time, then try the pics.. I have ZERO doubt the guru's here will get you all the help and good advice you need!

Here's a link to the photo tutorial in case you haven't seen it/want to look..

https://forums.iboats.com/forum/foru...ec-2017-update

Hope it helps!!

 

[garycolwill]

Thanks - this will be my second post then, and I'll upload again on the next one. Weird, though - I can see them fine. Maybe just my account?

 

[garycolwill]

I'm giving up posting the pics and put them on photobucket instead. Let's see how that works:

http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w490/garycolwill/20180416_191429_zpslx8gntyu.jpg

http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w490/garycolwill/20180416_191439_zpsg7stxosa.jpg

 

[jbuote]

Yeah.. It's odd sometimes.. lol
Original poster of pics can see them even if others can't..
Might not work on your 3rd post... Worth a try, but should show to us in your 4th post.. at least..

Your links DO work, so the guru's can take it from here..
I bet you'll be ok adding pics in here now though..

My best to you!!

 

[garycolwill]

Thanks! Pretty rough looking, right?

 

[jbuote]

OH YEAH...
Again, I am NOT A PRO.. lol

But to my eye, that's an anchor.. not an engine..
Maybe the others can advise better, but I'm not even sure a boring/sleeving/anything can save that..
Hate to say it, but hey!! Maybe I'm wrong!! lol

Going to follow and see what the real masters here have to say on this..
(Don't go by my thoughts.. lol)

 

[garycolwill]

I'll wait, but my instincts match your comments. I paid $250 for the boat and trailer, and it was probably too much. honestly. I probably need to learn to listen to my wife more. However, if I I can make it run without breaking the bank, maybe it'll be worth something to someone else who can redo the hull.

 

[jbuote]

Nope...
Even in my non-pro mind, I can't see you getting that running without a complete rebuild (1500+, probably more..)
or a reman engine.. (2k+)

Then there's hull issues, which probably require a full gut and restore...
Definately wait for the guru's here, but...

What's the whole story?
bought a boat and wondering what you can do with it?

I'm curious, but it's starting to sound like even the pro's will tell you to get rid of it, and shop for another you can use out of the box.. (if that makes sense.. lol)

 

[jbuote]

IF the trailer is in decent shape, then that's worth the $250!!
Any pics of the trailer?

There's always the rare chance you got a gem worth the repairs..
What boat is this?
Pics of boat and trailer?
Maybe IF (big if) it's a "Classic" of sorts, it may be worth something in its current condition?
Doubt it, but hey.. You never know...

 

[jbuote]

As a final thought, I don't "think" I'm too far off the mark with the above, however as stated earlier.. I'm no pro..
I defer to others who actually have the experience to properly guide you in this.

I too look forward to what they say on the matter..
I may learn something too!

 

[garycolwill]

The boat's a sea ray - pretty common. I saw it on craigslist for $250 and thought it was a pretty cheap risk. The guy I bought it from had developed health issues. He told me that when he bought it the guy said it was parked due to a bad fuel pump and that maybe that's all it needed. To this day I believe that's what he thought, but when i brought it home and hooked up a battery, I could hear the starter really straining to move the engine and not succeeding. What a moment!

Anyway, it's really a cheap lesson - $250 is nothing to sneeze at, but it could have been MUCH worse. I think the trailer is worth $250, as you said, and I'm thinking there's a pretty good list of parts I could sell on eBay: head, starter motor, alternator, carburetor, outdrive, etc. So maybe this isn't all bad.

Still, it would have been cool if I could have gotten this engine running.

C'est la vie, as they say.

 

[mickyryan]

totally fixable!
I have seen worse that is what happens when a boat sits for too long try some emory cloth first to knock off the high rust then vac out , fill cylinder with pb blaster let sit for awhile , i use a mix of pb and marvel mystery oil, then take and once a day try to move the crank, eventually it should break free then once you can spin the crank hone the walls with a honing tool and inspect if they are too pitted then you will have to have it bored and new pistons and rings , don't force turning the crank too much or you can snap rings and landings. once honed and smooth walled make a decision if walls aren't too pitted you might get lucky.
Yes i have freed up stuck blocks using this process and made rebuild able/actually running engines this way with time, also did the bon ami trick and restored compression and reduced blow by, old tricks can work but sometimes not .

 

[Bondo]

Ayuh,.... That motor needs a full on rebuild, an over-bore with new pistons,.....

Yer Machinist can tell ya for sure, or not,....

 

[Scott Danforth]

I would get a new to you long-block motor from a running truck. since its a 250 cubic inch, your looking at a pre 1981 truck

rebuilding an I6 is same cost as rebuilding a V8 (machining costs are same, parts costs are similar) so plan on $1500 with your local machine shop.

 

[garycolwill]

totally fixable!
I have seen worse that is what happens when a boat sits for too long try some emory cloth first to knock off the high rust then vac out , fill cylinder with pb blaster let sit for awhile , i use a mix of pb and marvel mystery oil, then take and once a day try to move the crank, eventually it should break free then once you can spin the crank hone the walls with a honing tool and inspect if they are too pitted then you will have to have it bored and new pistons and rings , don't force turning the crank too much or you can snap rings and landings. once honed and smooth walled make a decision if walls aren't too pitted you might get lucky.
Yes i have freed up stuck blocks using this process and made rebuild able/actually running engines this way with time, also did the bon ami trick and restored compression and reduced blow by, old tricks can work but sometimes not .

I've got nothing to lose by trying this, so that's my next step - thanks! BTW, what's the bon ami trick?

 

[garycolwill]

Never mind - I googled "bon ami cylinder" and lots of hits, so I learned something new today.

 

[mickyryan]

Let me say that you would be much better converting to a v8 at this point but i was trying to answer your question directly not give you my opinion , is it savable , probably is it safe? maybe, if cash willing would i toss it and convert to v8 or v6 hell yes

 

[garycolwill]

I appreciate that. I think I'll go ahead and see if I can use your method to get the motor running. If I do, I'll also change the impeller and see if there's anything else I need to get this out on the water. If that goes well, I'll probably be motivated to do a full hull restoration and maybe even the v8 conversion you've suggested. Time will tell.

I'll also say that if I do end up keeping this boat, it'll eventually undergo a change in color - I like avocados, but not necessarily for the color.

 

[stonyloam]

Be careful, there is nothing more expensive than a “free” boat. Looks like it sat with the intake valves open, and rusted up. Yeah go ahead and fool around with it if you like, might even get it to run again. If not, find a running 250 and drop it in and go have fun. I could se you easily putting a couple of thousand into that boat and still have a boat worth $250 if the hull is not sound. It would be a wise investment to pay someone to evaluate the hull and outdrive along with the marine parts bolted to the engine. Good luck......you’ll need it