Mercruiser MPI 5.0L w/ Bravo 3 outdrive not going into gear... lower shift cable is very hard to shift

[searay250]

Hi all,

Having an issue with a mercruiser MPI 5.0L, it's probably a late 90s or early 2000s as it has the crab style distributor cap and the cartridge-style fuel/water separator. It's connected to a Bravo 3 outdrive.

Long story short: My motor doesn't go into gear. The shift cable from the helm control works great and I can shift into gear by hand, but the lower shift cable is really, really hard to shift with to the point that the helm control can't shift it. Any help diagnosing will be appreciated! More info is below for those who are inclined to keep reading, but for anyone who wants to read just a short summary, that's the short version.

Longer version and more context: I only recently bought this boat. I had two different mechanics come check it out and do prepurchase inspections (as I've been burned before), both of them gave it the okay from a mechanical perspective. I don't know much about marine engines but one of them just checked it out on the trailer and the other put it into the water (just at the dock) and tested it. He said it was all good.

Then, I had a different mechanic come out to do a 300 hour service (bellows, cables, zincs, oil, etc.). He bailed halfway through and left me with a half-completed boat. So I called now a fourth mechanic to come finish up what this other mechanic had started. This fourth mechanic seemed good, finished the service, and told me it was good to go. As part of the service, he checked to make sure it went into gear. He worked the lower shift cable by hand and had me turn the prop. He told me it should lock up, I was spinning it and told him it felt like there was a lot of resistance but it wasn't fully locking up. He said this was good and moved on.

Put it into the water today and it won't go into gear. So now here's the thing... I'm pretty sure I remember it going into gear before, like with one of the mechanics doing a dockside water test, but I'm not actually sure. I tend to trust mechanics and this one was recommended and so when he said it was good, I believe it. And, a different mechanic checked it on the trailer. I kind of can't believe that two different mechanics didn't bother to check whether it goes into gear, but who knows.

So here's what I've tested and discovered so far. The cable from the helm control works perfectly. When I disconnect the lower shift cable from the shift plate and work the throttle, it moves, feels, and sounds exactly as expected. But, when I reconnect the lower shift cable, the throttle has a ton of resistance. So much so that if I keep pressing, it's like the throttle just slips past the part where it's supposed to get into gear and just revs the throttle without going into gear. Same with reverse. There's a ton of resistance, and then it just slips past the resistance and into throttle mode.

If I disconnect the lower shift cable, I can get it to shift and go into gear by hand. However, it's very, very hard to do... there's a TON of resistance. I really have to push to get it into gear, and there's so much resistance that I can only get it to go into gear when the motor is running. When the motor is off, I can't get it into gear at all. But, once it's in gear, it runs in both forward and reverse.

Here's the other thing: It feels like there's a LOT of travel going into forward. So neutral is in the middle, and if I pull back on the plastic cable end, I can get it to go into reverse. That black cable end probably moves about an inch back. And then it's an inch forward to get it into neutral again. To go into forward, I really have to push and it needs to go forward probably three, maybe even four inches towards that barrel thing. So there's about the right amount of travel for reverse but it feels like WAY more travel to get it into forward. Not sure if that's relevant.

I called the mechanic who seemed good and he said that he had tested it just by hand and it seemed okay. He said he noticed that it was a little hard to shift but it seems... really, really hard to shift, not just "a little hard". He said that it looked like the other mechanic (the guy who bailed on the 300 hour service about halfway through) installed a new lower shift cable. So the leaves me with a lot of unknowns. Did it shift before? Was there a new shift cable? Was the shift cable installed properly and lubed up and everything? How much resistance was there when the last mechanic was testing by hand?

So where I'm at now is I'm trying to figure out what the issue is. The shift cable from helm to shift plate seems great. The outdrive goes into gear, albeit with difficulty. The lower shift cable is really hard to work even by hand. Does this sound like a cable issue? An outdrive issue? Something else?

To further complicate things, this boat was on a borrowed trailer but after this second mechanic told me it was good to go, I launched it in a marina and returned the trailer. I probably shouldn't have trusted him but he came so highly recommended by everyone and has gone through all the mercury training programs and such, and he told me it was all set and ready to go so I launched it. So this boat is currently in the water in a slip. I'll test what I can with it in the water, and if I have to pull it out again, I will, but I'd like to exhaust all of the possibilities of things that I can test with it in the water before going through all the hassle of pulling it again.

Sorry for the long post... just trying to give as much information and context as possible! So just to recap, the lower shift cable is very hard to shift with and I'm trying to figure out if this is an issue with the cable, the outdrive, or what.

Thanks! I'm sure I forgot to include something dumb so please feel free to ask for more information or even ask obvious questions because I'm sure I'm not thinking great or problem solving very well.

 

[Fun Times]

From the description of the distributor cap and the cartridge, the year sounds newer than late 90's early 2000's... More like 2005+? What year is the boat? Have an overall photo to share to maybe help ID your setup better for you.

The only shift testing on a bravo drive is either with the engine running (< the best bet) or someone turning the prop like you sounded like you did at one point....If you try to shift without the inner drive portion turning, you're standing a good chance of creating additional damage at multiple places of the shift system from helm to drive.

For a bit more testing being that the boat is in the water you could try disconnecting the lower shift cable at the shift plate and try shooting/flowing some oil down the inner cable towards the drive to see if the cable seems to shift any easier possibly giving you an indication that if the cable is bad or not with same or less resistance... Look for cable routing and no binding/kinks between the shift plate on the engine on down towards the transom housing or hitting the engine coupler, etc..

Are you able to check receipts for parts bought to see if a new cable was ordered?

If the prop truly wasn't locking up while shifting by hand, then that would seem to indicate an possible internal issue within the upper stern drive housing as that is where the shift mechanisms are on the bravo drives... For that the boat would need to come back out and find a dedicated tech willing to go all the way through until the issue is found and repaired by said person including if that person is you doing it yourself through research online and a service manual and "time" by your side.

For a quick visual, most of the inner drive shifting components are seen in the following parts catalog that's covered up by the back cover 'item number 3, 9 - 20, plus the detent assembly number 5 can cause issue too like described. https://www.mercruiserparts.com/bam/subassemblydetail/46858221/28171120

https://www.clubsearay.com/forums/

 

[searay250]

I see, thank you so much for your detailed reply.

From the description of the distributor cap and the cartridge, the year sounds newer than late 90's early 2000's... More like 2005+? What year is the boat? Have an overall photo to share to maybe help ID your setup better for you.

Boat is a 1998. It could be a later motor. For what it's worth, parts from a 1998 Merc 5.0L seem to be a little hit or miss whether they work. I do need to ID the engine, the serial plate is in pretty bad shape but I plan to get that cleaned up in the very near future here.

For a bit more testing being that the boat is in the water you could try disconnecting the lower shift cable at the shift plate and try shooting/flowing some oil down the inner cable towards the drive to see if the cable seems to shift any easier possibly giving you an indication that if the cable is bad or not with same or less resistance... Look for cable routing and no binding/kinks between the shift plate on the engine on down towards the transom housing or hitting the engine coupler, etc..

Thanks! I will try this. Any particular type of oil? And I assume kinks would need to be pretty severe to cause this kind of binding, right? Like a gentle bend wouldn't cause this much in terms of issue, I should be looking for like a hard 90 degree turn or something?

Are you able to check receipts for parts bought to see if a new cable was ordered?

Well... I mean, a new cable was ordered. The real question is whether it was put in. As we were going through the motor, it was clear that the first mechanic had reused old parts quite a bit even though new parts had been ordered..... the cable "looks" new though so maybe it's new? "Looking new" is not a great test, of course, but that's all I got to go on

If the prop truly wasn't locking up while shifting by hand, then that would seem to indicate an possible internal issue within the upper stern drive housing as that is where the shift mechanisms are on the bravo drives... For that the boat would need to come back out and find a dedicated tech willing to go all the way through until the issue is found and repaired by said person including if that person is you doing it yourself through research online and a service manual and "time" by your side.

Thank you, that's the worry. As an intermediate step... and I'm happy to be told that this is a terrible idea... one thing that my mechanic had said to me (I think at least part of it was trying to diffuse blame, like, "hey this wasn't my fault") was that maybe things in the upper drive housing are just old and gummed up, and maybe they'll loosen up as gear oil works its way up there and sloshes around. Does this sound plausible? If so, I'm curious.... from the diagram you sent, it looks like most or all of the clutch/shift system is in that upper drive, under a top panel and a side panel. I understand that not much work can be done in the water, but what if I just loaded a bunch of heavy stuff in the bow and trimmed the drive up until even one of those panels was out of the water, and took it off quickly to spray some cleaner or oil in there or something to help it loosen up? It looks like just a couple of screws.... I'm imagining that I could loosen them in the water and then get the drive up and pull the panel off, get some oil sprayed in there, and get the panel back on in like 30 seconds. But maybe I'm just so naive about what it means to pull a panel, like maybe it's much more involved than just popping it off and then right back on. If this is a truly bad idea, I won't risk it, but if it seems feasible, I might try that rather than go through the major hassle and expense of pulling the boat back onto land and storing it while work is being done.

Thanks again for such a detailed reply! I'll try some of these things and report back. First step of getting some oil down the cable and checking for kinks.

 

[Fun Times]

I see, thank you so much for your detailed reply.



Boat is a 1998. It could be a later motor. For what it's worth, parts from a 1998 Merc 5.0L seem to be a little hit or miss whether they work. I do need to ID the engine, the serial plate is in pretty bad shape but I plan to get that cleaned up in the very near future here.

Yes, it's best to try and know the serial number since its possibly still there for a better starting point of what you have going on there especially if the engine may be a miss match... Try to get photos up to for comparison too.

Thanks! I will try this. Any particular type of oil? And I assume kinks would need to be pretty severe to cause this kind of binding, right? Like a gentle bend wouldn't cause this much in terms of issue, I should be looking for like a hard 90 degree turn or something?

Here's the bravo shift cable routing diagram...The cable needs to flow smoothly vs bend tightly in all aspects if that makes sense.


May have to remove the black plastic with the small set screw that holds the inner cable then flow any a small amount of oil or WD_40, etc. you may have handy down the tube..., Remember it's just a theory to try not a guarantee though it's worked for me a couple of times over the years.

Well... I mean, a new cable was ordered. The real question is whether it was put in. As we were going through the motor, it was clear that the first mechanic had reused old parts quite a bit even though new parts had been ordered..... the cable "looks" new though so maybe it's new? "Looking new" is not a great test, of course, but that's all I got to go on

The new cable most probably was installed especially if you know the stern drive was removed during the timeframe...Got to be positive.

Thank you, that's the worry. As an intermediate step... and I'm happy to be told that this is a terrible idea... one thing that my mechanic had said to me (I think at least part of it was trying to diffuse blame, like, "hey this wasn't my fault") was that maybe things in the upper drive housing are just old and gummed up, and maybe they'll loosen up as gear oil works its way up there and sloshes around. Does this sound plausible?

Honestly either worn out parts, slight water intrusion = corrosion, or gunked up old grease that generally needs opened up and cleaned up or some parts replaced is the way to correction...Once it starts in there, it only gets worse vs better in time.

If so, I'm curious.... from the diagram you sent, it looks like most or all of the clutch/shift system is in that upper drive, under a top panel and a side panel. I understand that not much work can be done in the water, but what if I just loaded a bunch of heavy stuff in the bow and trimmed the drive up until even one of those panels was out of the water, and took it off quickly to spray some cleaner or oil in there or something to help it loosen up? It looks like just a couple of screws.... I'm imagining that I could loosen them in the water and then get the drive up and pull the panel off, get some oil sprayed in there, and get the panel back on in like 30 seconds. But maybe I'm just so naive about what it means to pull a panel, like maybe it's much more involved than just popping it off and then right back on. If this is a truly bad idea, I won't risk it, but if it seems feasible, I might try that rather than go through the major hassle and expense of pulling the boat back onto land and storing it while work is being done.

Just pulling the top cap won't get you or any sprayed oil to the shifting components to help free something up in theory... Yes the top cap would need to come off too (<On land to remove shifting components for better inspection) but most of the work area needed is through the back cover item number 3.,, I love an open mind like that and at one crazy point in mind had I been standing there with you, 'I'd think the same only to realize that probably isn't going to work out so well even if you were able to get the drive high enough as one wake form a gust of wind, dare I say a wakeboard boat goes by and water rolls inside the drive to only create more problems for you. Then the fun part, everything falls in the water at some point no matter how hard you try to hold on.
Nope, sorry, can't fully recommend that. Lol.

Thanks again for such a detailed reply! I'll try some of these things and report back. First step of getting some oil down the cable and checking for kinks.

Good luck, play safe.

 

[searay250]

@Fun Times Thanks again for a detailed reply! I am not at the boat today, but tomorrow, I'll take some engine photos and post them, flow some oil down, check the routing, and see if it magically fixed itself. If not, I guess it's coming back out of the water, ugh. But, I will keep you posted!

Thanks again! Of course, anyone else is free to chime in if they've experienced this problem or have anything else to try in the meantime as I'm pretty desperate haha.

Thank you all

 

[alldodge]

FunTimes has you covered pretty well
The drive should shift easy with your hands holding lower shift cable and motor running on a trailer.

Remove cable from shift plate, start motor and an easy push/pull will change it F/N/R

 

[searay250]

Ok, so there was a fair amount wrong when I checked the cable routing today.

I tried to take a photo of the routing, but it's hard to capture everything. On the diagram provided by @Fun Times, it looks like the cable should bend starboard, go down around the manifold, and then loop back toward the center of the boat to exit out the transom. Mine... does not do that. It comes out of the shift plate, bends up and towards the port side, and then swoops down and out the transom. I tried to trace it in teal in the image below. As it comes down from the top of the transom, I put the teal just to the side of the cable, you can see the black cable shooting down right next to the teal. That's my lower shift cable. It goes towards the bottom of the engine and backwards out the transom, as indicated by the arrow.




Then, I also took the barrel off for the first time and found out that these two parts weren't even connected. This seems bad, right?




I ended up getting the threaded part screwed partway into the brass part, but it was difficult until I realized that I could loosen things on the black plastic end. It's mostly secured now, but it was just hanging barely together.

It still doesn't shift. I put a ton of oil down the cable.... the cable looked pretty dry, so hopefully some lube will fix it. Will keep you all posted.

To follow up on another question, I pulled the serial number from the engine tag. I get this on the mercruiser parts lookup:



Is there somewhere I could look up the year as well?

Thanks!!

 

[Fun Times]

Definitely a newer engine model and with the info you've shown thus far appears to show the year right around late 2005 - 07 year range...Probably an 06 year model. If you are able to the see any numbers on the ECM unit white stickers, it ought to show the year at least the ECM was made and often a roundabout of the engine year too... That or call a Mercruiser parts department with the serial number to see if they'll run it and check the year or email Merc and ask, https://www.mercurymarine.com/us/en/about-us/contact-us/mercruiser-customer-assistance

That cable routing while might not be too much of an issue depending on tight bends or kinks involved, it certainly doesn't help with what you're going through.... Shame on the installer for this one. And yes the tube should have been threaded in much further 'then of course properly adjusted with the correct tools from Merc all of which offers two options as noted below to adjust.

Bravo shift cable. Replacing your Bravo shift cable assembly.

https://www.cpperformance.com/instructions/bravo-shift-adjust.pdf

Here's another parts catalog, ignore the 1998 year model suggestion,

MerCruiser Stern Drive 1998 5.0L [BRAVO MPI] 4M42027TT [4M42027TT] - Parts Lookup | Crowley Marine

View parts diagrams and shop online for 4M42027TT : MerCruiser Stern Drive 1998 5.0L [BRAVO MPI] 4M42027TT. Offering discount prices on OEM parts for over 50 years. FAST $4.95 shipping available.

www.crowleymarine.com

 

[searay250]

Thank you for all your help, @Fun Times. I will give it a few more days to loosen up (either the gunk inside of the drive or the cable... I've been going down most days and dropping more oil down the housing, and manually putting it in and out of gear. Fingers crossed that it just magically works the kinks out! But, either way, your help has been invaluable and appreciated