Need ideas 1958? ELGIN 2hp overheating

[Texwing]

Hello, I am in the process of bringing back to life my two hp Elgin air cooled outboard, around a 1958 model, since it has a rope start. Blueish with green ?elgin? lettering, but the id tag is missing on the tiller handle.

I bought this motor running at a small outboard shop for $60 in about 1984. It would always start and run well for about ten minutes or so, and then overheat and die, but restart when cool. Without the internet and the amazing resource that has become, I gave up and hung the old elgin in the barn.

With the info I could find, I pulled the Magneto and ten punds of apparantly protective dirt dobber mud, and found it all in great shape. Coil, points, and such under the magneto look good, although the points were almost closed, and I have gapped at .020? After a light sanding of the magnets and coil, I get an OK spark when I spin the Magneto by hand.

I had to tap out three holes in the magneto cover to pull it with a harmonic balancer puller since I saw no other way, but thought it strange that was the only way-did I miss some other technique?

It looks all original, although I expected the coil to look terrible but it looks new-no cracks or visual problems.

Going throught the carb, I foolishly let acetone fumes get to the needle valve and destroyed the rubben end, but found a near identical tillotson needle at the lawnmower shop that looks like it will work ok. I have no tech data at all, but adjusted the float to stop gas flow level with the carb seam.

I found the big cork gasket betweenthe tank and motor about half gone. Also of interest was the Champion J6C spark plug-not what I read is recomended.

So, I am after advice on the overheating problem from 20 or so years ago, since I am sorta of expecting it happen again so I am looking for ideas:

1. Could the J6C sparkplug cause overheating?
2. Use of marine 2 cycle oil instead of air cooled 2 strolke oil?
3. Lean running, maybe I did not have the carb adjusted right?
4. Points out of adjustment (what is the right gap?)

Again, it would get hot after say ten minutes or so, sort of half way seize up, hard to turn over-until it cooled down, but ran really well during that time.

I would also appreciate some sort of start and run and adjust procedure, maybe the original factory doucumentation, since I have nothing. Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[keith-uk]

Re: Need ideas 1958? ELGIN 2hp overheating

Overheating is most of the time down to a lean air fuel mix, or it could be pulling in air from a crank seal, top or bottom, from the engine block or anywhere it has a gasket.
I would not think the plug would cause the overheating problem, (J11C plug) well not that quick anyway, its air cooled so most good 2-stroke mix will work ok, the 0.020" points gap sound right, i would run it one time with a heavy 2-stroke mix and see if it still gets hot, and on some old outboards that are put too deep in a tank of water for testing, it can put the exhuast back pressure up too high and lead to running problems.

 

[Texwing]

Re: Need ideas 1958? ELGIN 2hp overheating

Hey thanks for the input-How heavy a mix? It calls for 16 to 1 right now, so what would be covered heavy. That is interesting input on running the engine too low in the water, in both cases 20 years ago, the motor was hung on a canoe or inflatable that was really low in the water, and the powerhead was low to the water. I wonder if a spec exists on how far up the leg water can come?

 

[F_R]

Re: Need ideas 1958? ELGIN 2hp overheating

First things first. People think air cooled outboards are air cooled. They aren't. They are only partially air cooled. The exhaust is water cooled. Since the powerhead sits on top of the exhaust pipe, and since heat rises, it is just like the powerhead is sitting on a hot stove if the exhaust isn't being cooled.

OK, while most air cooled outboards have a water pump, yours doesn't. You are in luck there. But what it does have is a ram tube coming out of the underwater exhaust outlet, and curved forward. The propeller rams water into that open tube. Water goes up the tube and spills out the top end, underneath the powerhead.

My guess is that the ram tube is plugged up (remember the dirt daubers?) OR, it isn't even there.

Mix is 16:1.

A spark plug won't cause overheating.

 

[steelespike]

Re: Need ideas 1958? ELGIN 2hp overheating

I bet you find that water tube messed up missing or plugged.
58 uses a J11c plug J6J is cooler 59 uses a H10J old number.
About the same heat range with a different reach.can't remember longer or shorter.Plug gap after 58 is .030 58 and before is .050 yes thats .050.
point gap is .020.Carb is a Tillotson MD59A carb.

 

[Texwing]

Re: Need ideas 1958? ELGIN 2hp overheating

Wow that makes sense on the plugged tubing causing the overheating, since it took time to happen. Twenty years ago when I was running the motor and having the issue, I was so short of info I cant say whether I knew to check the tube. I did just go check it with compressed air and it was open, but when I power washed it I worked on the tube and that may have opened it up.

I dont know the year, it has a recoil starter and a decal scheme like the 1958 red one I see on the internet, but mine is an almost baby blue paint color with green elgin letters if that helps date it, since the ID tag was on the tiller handle is long gone.

I filed points and cleaned connections and sanded magnets and coil surfaces clean of rust under the magneto, and was rewarded with a pretty nice spark when I spin it by hand. With the plug in, the compression seems good. I am close to crank time! thanks for the help.

 

[Ned L]

Re: Need ideas 1958? ELGIN 2hp overheating

I believe earlier models of your engine did not have that water tube, (I have a number of these outboards from a variety of years, and the earlier one does not have the tube). I can tell you that if it does have the tube, it is pretty easy to see if it is working. When the engine is runing there is a sputtering of water mist coming out of the small grid work of exhaust holes on the back of the lower unit 'leg'. - Nice, simple little engines.

 

[Texwing]

Re: Need ideas 1958? ELGIN 2hp overheating

Well, no sputtering mist when running out the exhaust holes, but its in a barrel and I am told that may be the problem. When I run water up the tube with the garden hose, some of that water does exit the exhaust hole grid, with most going down the leg and exiting behind the prop, so I know the tube is open.

It was running really pretty good, then ran for a long time marginally, and now won't run at all, just sputters and dies, so I have some work to do to just test it on a boat.