Need Service Manual

[starfishkiller]

This was also posted in the project boats forum.<br /><br />I just purchased a 1974 33' Chriscraft COHO project boat. The engines are Chriscraft engines. Port engine is Model 3500BL15, Engine #222977. Starboard engine is Model 3500B15, Engine #222980. Engines are small block chevy based. Both engines don't run and I plan on pulling and overhauling them. I need to find a source for a service manual for these engines. Also if anyone can cross the Model numbers to tell me exactly what I am looking at that would also be much appreciated.<br /><br />Thanks<br />eric

 

[wyoben]

Re: Need Service Manual

We have manuals for old boat engines, call us a 1-866-SHOPMAN

 

[Bondo]

Re: Need Service Manual

My Guess is,<br />You've got a pair of 350cid, 5.7l Chevy Small Blocks...<br />Does 1 counter-rotate ???<br />Mod.#s are the same.....

 

[starfishkiller]

Re: Need Service Manual

Bondo, thanks for the reply. I think you are <br />right about them being 350CID. I went back and <br />took another look at the engines. The port engine<br />has a label on it that says 350. <br /><br />I don't know how to tell if one of the engines counter-rotates. The plate with the model/engine numbers has the firing order listed as 15634278. Both engines have the same firing order listed on their respective plates. Is there anything to look for that would indicate a counter rotating engine?<br /><br />The port engine model number has an "L" after the "B" in it's model number. Starboard engine model number doesn't have the "L". I'm thinking the "L" signifies some difference in rotation, however the firing order stamped on the plate is the same. <br /><br />Could both engines rotate in the same direction relying on the transmissions to change rotational direction for the counter rotating propellers? The transmissions are Paragon V-drive transmissions. I couldn't get any model numbers from either transmission because of paint on the name plates. I'll have to go back with some fine sandpaper and try to clean them up.<br /><br />Also, the transmission is connected to the front of the engine (i.e. not on the flywheel end). Both engines have fresh water cooling. Anyone have any experience with this engine/transmission setup.<br /><br />Thanks<br />eric

 

[starfishkiller]

Re: Need Service Manual

I went back to the boat and got the numbers from the transmissions. The transmissions are Paragon V-drive transmissions. <br /><br />The port transmission has the following numbers:<br />6C-1856 PV32-L Z7868-L<br /><br />Starboard transmission has the following numbers:<br />6C-2498 PV32-R Z7868-R<br /><br />Since the engines have the same firing order I am assuming the engines both rotate in the same direction. If I interpret the numbers from the transmissions (i.e. -L and -R) to mean each transmission output turns in a different direction based on the same input. Does this make sense?<br /><br />Thanks for any input.<br /><br />eric

 

[Bondo]

Re: Need Service Manual

starfishkiller,<br />I wish I knew More, But I've only stumbled over these drives a couple of times.....<br />What I Do know,<br />Yes, They Could be standard engines, with the rotation changed in the trans.....<br />I'm Not Sure about the Firing Order... I Do Know the Cam,+ Dist. turn in the standard direction... The cam is driven by a Gear, rather than a Chain, on a counter-rotating motor.... That way the Crank turns backwards, while the cam + dist Don't....<br /><br />Easiest Way I know of to Tell Real Quick......<br />Turn the Key,+ Look..... <br />Good Luck...

 

[starfishkiller]

Re: Need Service Manual

Bondo:<br />Thanks for your help. Unfortunately the starters are not in the boat. The spark plugs are also out and the ignition wires are not hooked up. It was this way when I bought it. However, I can turn the engines using a crowbar against the flywheel and look at the rotor to see which way it turns.<br /><br />Thanks again.<br /><br />eric

 

[Bhamil]

Re: Need Service Manual

Hello; I have a site for you to go to where you might just find your answer. It's:<br /><br />www.maplebay.com/links.htm<br /><br />Then go to the link for the Mariners Museum of Virginia, and you'll go to a repository where all Chriscraft manuals of all their boats is stored. You should get a response very quickly, I just within the last 15 minutes sent a request for info and received it via e-mail within 5 minutes. Good luck.

 

[John Carpenter]

Re: Need Service Manual

The Mariner's Museum is a great source for info of all kinds on older Chris Crafts. They are very helpful.<br /><br />I have the manual for the Marine Power 350 and Paragon transmissions in my hand...it is still easy to get confused. The numbers on your Paragon tranny break down like this. In the PV32 sequence, 3 signifies a 300 Series (rated for 260 hp. @ 4000 rpm). The numeral 2 is the code for your reduction gear ratio (1.5:1 in your case). The following letter (L or R)signifies a left or right hand rotation....meaning that the transmission is for use with a right or left hand rotating engine.<br /><br />The rest of the numbers are the serial numbers for that transmission.<br /><br />The only thing here that confuses me is the fact that both engines show the same firing order...which leads me to believe that they rotate in the same direction. But according to the Paragon manual you "should" have one of each. Shoot me an e-mail if you are unable to turn up a manual...as I will probably forget to check on this thread jcarpenter@vci.net

 

[starfishkiller]

Re: Need Service Manual

Relentless:<br />Thanks for the info. I found some information about Paragon transmissions on a website. They didn't have the information regarding the reduction ratio or the horsepower limit. They did have an explanation about the L and R designation. The transmissions with the L designation output rotates the same direction as the input. The transmissions with the R designation rotate in the opposite direction from the input. In the case of my boat both engines are left hand rotating engines. Since one engine has an L transmission and one an R transmission the props turn in opposite directions. <br /><br />Thanks<br />eric

 

[John Carpenter]

Re: Need Service Manual

We need a motorhead in this thread. It was always my understanding that all Chevy small blocks had the same firing order, and what is shown in my manual does not match up with what you have posted as the firing order on your engines. According to the manual the firing order for a R.H. engine is 1,2,7,5,6,3,4,8 and the L.H. engine is 1,8,4,3,6,5,7,2. The distributor rotates clockwise when viewed from above in either case.<br /><br />Anybody know what the firing order is on a Ford?

 

[papdetomaso]

Re: Need Service Manual

Ford firing order 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8

 

[starfishkiller]

Re: Need Service Manual

Relentless:<br /> I agree about the firing order. A standard chevy firing order is 18436572 and 127564348 as you stated. However, I have exchanged emails with a few folks with the same engines as mine and what Chris Craft did is renumber the cylinders starting at the flywheel end of the engine. They must have also had special cams made as well for these engines because the firing order is indeed 15634278 based on the Chris Craft numbering scheme. That would translate to 81563427 using the standard chevy numbering scheme. Very oddball IMHO<br /><br />eric

 

[Snailman]

Re: Need Service Manual

Be cautious is you're ever tempted to order a shop manual from wyoben! <br /><br />I paid for a manual over two months ago and have gotten nothing but promises from them.<br /><br />Be careful!