Need to confirm Torque specs for main engine bearings

[Big-E]

On my 1989 3.0 L GM iron duke. I have tried everthing now to get this thing to turn over. http://www.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=24;t=010918 <br /><br />Only thing im thinking isi read the toque specs wrong and put to much torque on main engine bearings. My old chiltions(sp?) My book said to torque the main bearing cap (rear one last to 65 ft-lbs) Do the others 1st to 10-12 ft-lbs then torque down to 65 ft-lbs. Seems the only thing i can think of that would stop motor from turning is the motor itself. <br /><br />But the odd thing is , it turned by hand and by starter from time to time and sound just fine. I think im streaching here on main bearing toque specs, but its worth a ask. <br /><br />thanks in advance, <br /><br />Big-E

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Need to confirm Torque specs for main engine bearings

Did you fix your starter? did you adjust the valves at all? Don't know about torque spec's {don't have manual near-by. It's not stuck in gear is it?

 

[Big-E]

Re: Need to confirm Torque specs for main engine bearings

Yea brought starter to shop and they state its perfect. They benched tested it for me. Brought battery to parts store to have tested. That came back perfect. I did adj the vavles most of the way, They will need a final adj once motor is running. The motor spun when i had car jumping it again today, then stopped and started clicking again (starter gear engaging flywheel but not moving it). This was with the plugs out. My elec system is tight and not grounding or shorting or anything. Im getting plenty of voltage to starter ( at least 10.5 volts when trying to start). The only other thing i can think of is i put bottom end of motor together wrong. I dunno.. Like i said i think im reaching now. <br /><br />I do know its not the starter or battery. <br /><br />thanks, <br /><br />Big-E

 

[rayjay]

Re: Need to confirm Torque specs for main engine bearings

You have got to improvise a way to turn the motor by hand with the plugs out. If the motor turns smoothly for many revolutions then you know it's the starter or wiring. <br /><br />There is such a thing as starter shims although they are mostly used on aftermarket racing type, reduction geardrive starters. <br /><br />When the starter does turn the motor does it sound labored or free and easy ? <br /><br /> Get a remote starter switch and hook up the leads directly to the solenoid so that you are bypassing the boats starter circuit. You will then be able to get a better idea what's going on.<br /><br />Are the plugs real wet? Is the carb overflowing and filling the cyls with gas ? Do you have the plug wires hooked up correctly ? Dist way advanced? Valves too tight causing them to hit the pistons ?<br /><br />I used to build a few street & strip engines and the first thing I did was build a test stand so that I could break in the cam, do a retorque, adj the valves, check for oil leaks, etc, before the engine ever went in the car.

 

[Big-E]

Re: Need to confirm Torque specs for main engine bearings

For the 1st few seconds starter sounds good with plugs out, Then the starter sounds labored and just clicks. It is not turning over quite as fast as my cars. With the plugs out it shouldnt matter if the vavles are correct or not due to no comperstion. At the moment i dont even have fuel set up yet. Thats the only thing that leads me to belive the torque specs are wrong ? <br /><br />thanks

 

[rayjay]

Re: Need to confirm Torque specs for main engine bearings

The first thing I would do is try to verify that you don't have a binding / misalignment situation with the driveshaft. This would make the motor difficult to turn over leading to the starter quickly overheating. Are there any signs of deterioration of the motor mount stringers ? Shims missing ?<br /><br />If all is well there then I would get another starter from another supplier. <br /><br />When building a motor I always rotated the crank after every task. Set the crank on the upper brgs and make sure it turns free by hand. Install the main brg caps hand tight and make sure the crank turns freely. Torque the caps one at a time turning the crank after every cap is at final torque. Check end play. Install first piston/rod assy and turn crank { will get progressively stiffer of course }. On and on turning crank after each rod cap is snugged down. Then torque the rod caps with a correct feeler gauge between the pairs { V motors }. <br /><br />I got real anal about this when I did a marine 302 Ford that had two rods with the same # stamped on them. Snugged the cap down { app 5 ft/lbs } and the crank no longer turned. Removed the cap and the crank turned. Confirm cap matches rod. Scratch head. Snug cap, crank won't turn. S H . Look at the remaining rods and find the same #. Swap caps and all is well.

 

[tommays]

Re: Need to confirm Torque specs for main engine bearings

did you use plastic guage to check the clearence when you did the bearings ? <br /><br />i think you would break a bolt before you deformed a bearing houseing<br /><br />tommays

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Need to confirm Torque specs for main engine bearings

Have you ever tried to start this engine with the drive off?..J

 

[Big-E]

Re: Need to confirm Torque specs for main engine bearings

rayjay: the motor is mounted solid and the stringers are nice and firm. I dont belive drive aligment is causing the problem cause once the starter starts moving the motor nothing seems to be slowing it down. <br />The crank did rotate after i tighthend down the mains to spec by hand. The problem with the 3.0 is there is no bolt t hat goes into the crank. So once i put the pistions back in i was unable to grab the crank and move the entire rotation assy. <br /><br />tommays: i did use plastic guage and it showed within spec. I feeler guaged everything in the motor during assy as well. My results were on the tight side but inside the spec range. <br /><br />thanks guys<br /><br />Big-E

 

[Big-E]

Re: Need to confirm Torque specs for main engine bearings

J.kopec : yes i did try to turn motor over w/out drive connected. It was the same story. I was just thinking it must have been a starter/elec problem and put the drive on in hopes it was something stupid. I'm about to just rip the motor out of boat "again" to tripple check everything. <br /><br />thanks, <br /><br />Big-E

 

[Bondo]

Re: Need to confirm Torque specs for main engine bearings

You could try turning the motor like rodbolt mentioned the other day......<br /><br />Make sure the Belt is Tight,+ Put a Wrench on the Alt.,+ Turn it from There.......<br /><br />With the plugs out,... It Should be turning Very Freely.......<br /><br />There's Oil in it,.... Right ??

 

[Big-E]

Re: Need to confirm Torque specs for main engine bearings

Bondo: I tried that and all that happend was the w/p and alt moved and belt slipped around crank. Yes i had that bad boy torqued down pretty good. Yes i have oil in her. I even primed it by running drill in rev with shaft into oil pump. Oil was flowing well!<br /><br />rayjay: i hope i dont have to pull motor again but i will take your advice and make a stand to run it 1st before i put her back into the boat. <br /><br />Btw when the engine accually cranks it sounds fine. Cranks slower then it shoudl with plugs out but it will crank and sound good. This is whats really getting me. If i have the mains to tight wouldnt it just not crank at all and why would it spuraticly(sp?) decide to crank over well for a couple min's then go back to the click bump its been doing. <br /><br />thanks guys

 

[rayjay]

Re: Need to confirm Torque specs for main engine bearings

Try a different starter before you yank out the motor. If you do have to pull it I have seen people make up some simple braces and run an engine on a 3 or 4 wheeled stand like you probably used to build the engine.

 

[Big-E]

Re: Need to confirm Torque specs for main engine bearings

update: ***<br /><br />Today i have deteremined that i must have put motor together wrong. I tried cranking motor over by hand and nothing. Since i have no bolt on main crank i made a braket with a bolt and nut so i was able to turn crank and nothing. Its way to hard to turn over by hand with plugs out. I will try again once i get drive off but i have a feeling something is binding internaly. <br /><br />Man this is a huge setback.. <br /><br />thanks for the help guys, will keep you posted. Should have her out of boat tomorrow.

 

[Limited-Time]

Re: Need to confirm Torque specs for main engine bearings

Big-E,<br /> I would look closely at the rod or main caps as Destin alluded to. I have seen this type of assembly issue before. Also if you have to disassemble and reassemble the bottom end rotate the assembly before advancing to the next step. (I am assuming you are using an assembly lubricant.) That way you will be able to catch any problems as they occur.

 

[Destin]

Re: Need to confirm Torque specs for main engine bearings

Big-E - You checked for binding after torqueing the main bearings, but not the rod bearings. Many years ago when I rebuilt a Chevy 6 I carefully numbered the rod caps to match the rods. When reassembling I had the correct cap on each rod, but I had reversed the caps on a couple of rods. I'm pretty sure I checked the clearances with Plastigage also. The starter could barely turn the engine. I pulled the pan and started loosening bearings until it loosened up and I finally figured out what I did wrong. I put the rod caps back on in the proper direction and all was good. Sounds very similar to your problem.

 

[Big-E]

Re: Need to confirm Torque specs for main engine bearings

Thanks guys, thats what i was thinking also. The mains are on right i know of because i put them on backwards 1st.. lol <br /><br />I may have rev. the rod bearings. Yes i am using assembly lub.. Lots of it. <br /><br />Thanks guys will give update tomorrow. <br /><br />Big-E

 

[rayjay]

Re: Need to confirm Torque specs for main engine bearings

On every brand of motor I have worked on the tabs on the rod brgs are always go on the same side.<br /><br />"Things double checked rarely go astray"

 

[Big-E]

Re: Need to confirm Torque specs for main engine bearings

rayjay: i know what your talking about. The only thing i can think of is i must have reversed a rod brg or 2. I did make a plate that will allow me to turn motor by hand outa metal today. <br /><br />Hope it was just a dumb mistake and im on my way <br /><br />thanks, <br /><br />Big-E