Need trailer brake advice

[Ocean Airbrush]

I have a 19' Grady White tournament with an aluminum dual axle float on trailer. I just bought this rig used and the trailer has brakes (disc)on both axles but the cheap plastic lines long since rotted and broke. Then the previous owner welded the surge brake actuator as opposed to fixing the brake lines.

I calculate a towed weight of 5000lbs Boat, motor, fuel, gear & trailer.

Can I get away with buying a new brake kit and installing a set on one axle or should I pony up the cash for a full two axle set? If so, what are some well priced recommendations?

I tow with a Durango which is hardly a large size tow vehicle in the weight department. Currently I've been sticking to local ramps and backroads to keep my out of the stop and go traffic but I want to travel with this boat and some of the trips involve 1000 mile round trips.

 

[Pez Vela]

Don't rear end me bro'

Don't rear end me bro'

I think you answered your own question once you mentioned 1,000 mile trips. The towing/braking capacity of your Durango is a big factor, not just the weight of the boat. As you're set to leave on your family vacation, would you feel right telling your family, "I saved a few dollars on the trailer brakes, but we should be O.K."

 

[grahamh]

Re: Need trailer brake advice

I would think that one axle would be fine, I've seen lots of dual axle trailers with that setup, 5000lbs isn't that heavy. If you're not satisfied, you can always add another set later.

 

[cribber]

Re: Need trailer brake advice

I'd bring it back to manufacture spec... If the trailer had dual axle brakes then that's what I'd stick with for safety since the manufacturer thought it was needed and also to keep the retail value when it comes time to sell.

 

[Ocean Airbrush]

Re: Need trailer brake advice

My Durango does a surprisingly good job of stopping the rig without brakes. However, I am not so knaive as to beleive it will hold up to stop and go traffic or a high speed panic stop. I have no desire to be 500 miles from home with warped/cracked rotors. While I think 5000lbs should be well within the capability of a single axle set I would like to look at the ratings of a few sets to make a decision. Trust me, I would always take the cautious approach and I would not even consider taking a risk with my family over a few hundred dollars.

So does anyone have any suggestions on where I can find some reasonably priced kits?

 

[elkhunter338]

Re: Need trailer brake advice

1. you need to check to see if surge brakes are legal in your state. Most states require electric/hydralic brakes which your brake controller actuats the hydralic brake system on your boat trailer.
I have a boat/trailer that is about 4500-4800 lbs with no brakes and I tow it with a 2500 dodge with 4 wheel disc brakes. I am ok with this setup, but I plan to add a 2,000 lb camper to my truck and then I plan to add brakes to the boat trailer. Also my boat trailer needs new axles in the near future. It has axles rated at 2,000lbs so I am just slightly overloaded on the trailer axles.
What I think I will go with is a electric/hydralic brake with one axles on the trailer with disc brakes.
Or since surge brakes are legal in Oregon I might go with surge brakes and put disc brakes on both axles.
Putting a pair of 3500 lbs axles on the trailer.
If you go with one axles you have to watch the tire ratings to make sure you have tires rated for the load.
If you are in salt water you want to go with disc brakes.
I have done some research on the topic but not a bunch. Talked to loadmaster trailers about a new trailer and he went through brake options with me. New trailer was too expensive and I could add axles to my trailer and some more modification.
The trailer they would have built for me would have had 2-3500lb axles with electric/hydralic brakes, disc brakes on both axles.

 

[Pez Vela]

Online shopping for trailer brakes

Online shopping for trailer brakes

Eastern Marine is an online store that sells competing products from which you might choose. Price shopping is the easy part ... deciding what you like or need is more difficult. Ask the experts (not me). From my personal experience, the more you use and service your rig, the more trouble free it will be, and that goes especially for the trailer brakes ... whatever your choice. I've been dragging my Grady (and others) up and down the Baja peninsula since 1972 and could tell some stories about trailer failures. Spare parts are a wise investment ... no matter where you go, and even if you intend to have someone else do the emergency repair. Vaya con Dios!

 

[JoLin]

Re: Need trailer brake advice

1. you need to check to see if surge brakes are legal in your state. Most states require electric/hydralic brakes which your brake controller actuats the hydralic brake system on your boat trailer.
I have a boat/trailer that is about 4500-4800 lbs with no brakes and I tow it with a 2500 dodge with 4 wheel disc brakes. I am ok with this setup, but I plan to add a 2,000 lb camper to my truck and then I plan to add brakes to the boat trailer. Also my boat trailer needs new axles in the near future. It has axles rated at 2,000lbs so I am just slightly overloaded on the trailer axles.
What I think I will go with is a electric/hydralic brake with one axles on the trailer with disc brakes.
Or since surge brakes are legal in Oregon I might go with surge brakes and put disc brakes on both axles.
Putting a pair of 3500 lbs axles on the trailer.
If you go with one axles you have to watch the tire ratings to make sure you have tires rated for the load.
If you are in salt water you want to go with disc brakes.
I have done some research on the topic but not a bunch. Talked to loadmaster trailers about a new trailer and he went through brake options with me. New trailer was too expensive and I could add axles to my trailer and some more modification.
The trailer they would have built for me would have had 2-3500lb axles with electric/hydralic brakes, disc brakes on both axles.

Where are surge brakes illegal? I've never heard of that before.

When I bought my new Tidewater trailer, I had questions about brake options (was leaning toward electric rather than surge). The dealer put me in touch with a manufacturer rep. who said, "much as I'd like to see you buy an $800 option, you simply don't need it."
This trailer has surge disk brakes on all 4 wheels. I tow a 7000+ lb rig and they work GREAT.

 

[Ocean Airbrush]

Re: Need trailer brake advice

I have to wonder about someone who starts their post citing legalities and then proceeds to tell me they tow a 5000lb trailer with NO brakes which is not legal in most states. Most states require trailer brakes for any trailer over 3500lbs, less in some states more in a handful of others. Even 1 ton pickups are not designed to control that kind of load without assistance. Albeit they are much better equipped than my Durango.

Thank you Pez, I will check them out.

I am definitely going with surge brakes, I do not have a great deal of faith in electrical components and saltwater (I do live in FL and boat about 50/50 in salt and fresh). Surge brakes are simple, uncomplicated and they work with few points of failure. They also modulate perfectly every time since the harder you stop, the harder they stop. Electric brakes IMO are for campers. Where a passing semi can cause otherwise uncontrollable sway and the only water they see is rain. Electro-hydraulic are just way to complicated with too many points of failure in my opinion.

 

[elkhunter338]

Re: Need trailer brake advice

You have to look at your state inparticilar for the tailer brake req. The trailer manufacuture that I spoke with regarding a new trailer stated surge brakes are not legal in many states, 12 states are legal all others are not. I would assume they know what they are talking about. I talked to him for awhile regarding the types of brakes, drum, disk, surge, electric/hydralic.
Educate your self regarding the electric/hydralic option and look up your states trailer brake requirments.
The brake system on the trailer is hydralic brakes, the electric/hydralic is a pump that is actuated by your electric brake controler. From what i have read this setup give you better braking capability on your trailer, brakes do not drag going down a long hill, they only are applied when you apply your brakes. If you mount the electric/hydralic actuator at the correct height you will not be putting electrical connection underwater. This type of actuator takes the place of the surge brake actuator the rest of the brake system is the same, you still have hydralic brakes.

Oregon is ok with surge brakes and you have to stop in a certain amount of distance at a certain speed to determine if you are legal. They do not require trailer brakes on a certain weight trailer.
I drive the speed limit, leave extra distance, and drive cautious. I agree I should have trailer brakes and will be adding them in the near future. My boat when I bought it did not have brakes on either axle. I see many trailers with brakes that do not work at the boat ramp.
There is no sense not making your trailer legal if you are spending the money to upgrade the trailer.

 

[cribber]

Re: Need trailer brake advice

Just my 2 cents worth... My 5x8 utility trailer is rated at 1500 pounds and doesn't have any type of brakes and I rely on our tow vehicle which weighs in at 4400 pounds to stop us when loaded. My 3200 pound rated Ez-Loader has manual surge brakes and I'm grateful to have them. So in my opinion if you're towing under a ton you'll be aight without auxiliary brakes to help ya out. If what you're towing is beyond 3/4 of the weight of your tow vehicle, you need some type of brake system.

 

[mike343]

Re: Need trailer brake advice

I don't believe that surge brakes are illegal in any state. And my guess is that boat trailers sold in in all the states have surge brakes. Anyone out there in a state that doesn't allow them?

 

[Fl_Richard]

Re: Need trailer brake advice

I tow in florida with a 4WD Durango. I pull a Wellcraft Coastal 238 with twin 150's (over 5000lbs) and I have a Loadmaster tandem aluminum trailer with Kodiak 12" surge brakes on one axle. (Both axles are 3500 lb rated)

It tows and stops GREAT!

Hope this helps,
Richard

 

[j_martin]

Re: Need trailer brake advice

It appears to me that in the late 90's, the feds ruled that brakes used in interstate commerce had to be operative at all times, effectively outlawing surge brakes. States that hinged their laws on the fed were in the same boat. One that I know of, Maryland, got anal about it, and caused a lot of trouble in the rental industry.

That was all put to bed, both federal and Maryland, in 2007.

I am no expert by any means, but I can google.

For overall safety and performance, it's hard to beat electric-hydraulic. It gives bidirectional breaking. (ever had your tow vehicle slide helplessly down a wet or sandy steep landing.) You can operate the trailer brakes independently, either controlling fishtailing, or compensating for tow vehicle brake failure. On most controllers, you can dial in your trailer braking for the load on the trailer.

BTW, if there's a rocker between the springs on a dual axle system, brakes on the rear axle will cause weight to transfer from the front axle to the rear axle and the hitch. You can get up to 80% braking with one axle, and eliminate the tendency to jackknife in an emergency stop as the front axle will still be rolling and maintaining directional control.

hope it helps,
John

 

[JoLin]

Re: Need trailer brake advice

Okay, I've randomly searched 3 of the states' DMV laws regarding trailers and brakes, including my own (NY). I went to the DMV sites, not to a trailer or RV site link. All require brakes for trailers above a certain weight, but NONE specifiy the method of actuation (electric vs surge).

My Tidewater Mfr. rep never mentioned it as an issue when he talked me OUT of the electrics. It doesn't make sense to me that he would have refrained from selling me a profitable option if they were required anywhere, or at least mentioning it to me (I might, after all, travel to a state that required them). I'd think the opposite would be true.

Elkhunter, I think your trailer guy was making it up. If anybody can point to a real example to support your position, I'll certainly correct myself.

Here's NY's:

http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/forms/mv529c.pdf

 

[Fl_Richard]

Re: Need trailer brake advice

"It appears to me that in the late 90's, the feds ruled that brakes used in interstate commerce had to be operative at all times, effectively outlawing surge brakes."

I too believe this to be true. However, private and interstate commerce are two completely different catagories.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Need trailer brake advice

Personally, I would put brakes on both axles. On my 7000# boat/trailer being towed with a 1/2T Chevy, there is no way it would stop with brakes on one axle.

I have electric/hydraulic on my trailer. It is the best especially if you happen to use equilizing bars which can really affect how a surge actuator operates.

 

[Ocean Airbrush]

Re: Need trailer brake advice

Richard....let's go fishing!!

My trailer came with Surge brakes and that is what I am sticking with. My reasons are stated above. As for the 80% of braking comes from one axle comment, I have torsion axles so I am not sure this would apply. If so, do I mount a single axle kit on the front or rear axles?

 

[Knightgang]

Re: Need trailer brake advice

Still mount them on the rear axle. In a panic stop situation, when you nail the brakes, you nose dive your front bumper, thereby raising your hitch height. Bu raising the hitch, you put more load on the rear axle...

 

[j_martin]

Re: Need trailer brake advice

Richard....let's go fishing!!

My trailer came with Surge brakes and that is what I am sticking with. My reasons are stated above. As for the 80% of braking comes from one axle comment, I have torsion axles so I am not sure this would apply. If so, do I mount a single axle kit on the front or rear axles?

The weight transfer deal has to do with the braking moment (torque) on the rear axle driving down the rear of the rocker, thereby lifting on the front axle.

Torsion axles are independently sprung, so this would not take place. I would put brakes on both axles on that trailer.

hope it helps
John