New boat, Opinions on wiring configuration.

[MassillonBuckeye]

Bought a 16' Starcraft PM160 which has 4 batteries total. 1 starter, 1 "aux" and 2 up front for a 36lb thrust trolling motor which I'm pretty sure is 12v so they have them wired parallel? I'd like to put in a battery switch or someting to break the circuits when not in use. Would also possibly like to add a ground buss and +12 bus for ease of use while adding electronics down the road. Also thinking of ways to charge everything. I have an old automotive 2/10a charger at the moment so need recommendations there as well. Thanks for any input

 

[Ike-110722]

Re: New boat, Opinions on wiring configuration.

It sounds like a pretty typical setup. Putting in a battery switch would be good. The busses also would be OK especially for adding electronics.

As far as the charge goes chuck it. give it to Goodwill and go buy a good three or four stage smart charger with a brain. Batteries need to be charged in stages. Those old chargers will ruin a battery in no time at all. See Batteries and Chargers http://newboatbuilders.com/docs/BatteriesandChargers.pdf

 

[barbosam]

Re: New boat, Opinions on wiring configuration.

See here for ideas/guidance...
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=466917

 

[barbosam]

Re: New boat, Opinions on wiring configuration.

As for chargers I use the promariner 8. So far so good but I have heard a lot of bad reviews saying the unit failed pretty quickly. As far as the functions of the unit, its pretty ideal but probably not the most reliable. I guess I have been lucky so far. Do some research and find yourself a similar unit.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: New boat, Opinions on wiring configuration.

Adding positive and negative busses is really not necessary. Add a fuse panel that has both incorporated. You can then add accessories very easily. The only decision is which battery you want to power your accessories. One must presume from your description that you want the "house battery" to do that job. A simple battery disconnect switch (not a dual battery switch) inserted between the positive connections on the two troller batteries is all you need to separate the troller batteries. Set the switch to oFF and the two are isolated from each other. Set it to ON and they are again paralleled. The engine should keep the starting battery topped off since you would have only the gauges on that circuit. The other three would require as a minimum, a two bank 6 - 8 amp per output. When charging the troller batteries you have the disconnect switch set to ON. The other option would be a three output charger with one set of outputs to the house and each of the two trollers. On a 16 foot boat one must assume that it is powered by an outboard so charging capability will be limited. Don't even think that the engine will keep all four topped off. The best you could do in that regard is add an ACR to keep the starting and house batteries charged.

 

[MassillonBuckeye]

Re: New boat, Opinions on wiring configuration.

Thank for the replies guys. Turns out after a bit more poking under the console, that there is a +12 buss and a ground right there. Looks like the gauges are wired directly to this. I'm going to have to get under there tomorrow when I have some daylight and see exactly whats going on. Theres a set of aeration controls on the side of the console that don't seem to do anything. A couple wires cut and broken. I can't wait!!

Yeah, I knew better than to want to charge everything with the motor. 2 bank gotcha, but are the leads long enough to charge both the front and the rear of the boat? I've never used or seen one up close. I also have to see exactly how the troller batteries are wired. You think the gauges and that +12v buss are running off the starting battery?

 

[Silvertip]

Re: New boat, Opinions on wiring configuration.

Some chargers have an "extension kit" that allows longer reach. Some specify that the kit is required and that simply lengthing the output leads will cause the charger to malfunction. Verify this before you buy a charger.

As for the boat wiring. If the gauges are indeed powered via the positive and negative busses, that means the positive buss is fed from the "A" (accessory) termiinal on the ignition switch. If that were not true, then the gauges would be active all the time. That also means power for ALL accessories is received via the ignition switch and the engine wiring harness. That also means you need to be carefull how much power you pull through that system. This is NOT the recommended way to power stuff in a boat and is the reason boats generally have a "BOAT" harness and an "ENGINE" harness. The boat harness runs from the starting battery, through a breaker, to the fuse panel/buss at the helm. Only the guages get powered through the ignition switch. But if what you have works, then just heed the caution about pulling too much power through the engine harness.

 

[MassillonBuckeye]

Re: New boat, Opinions on wiring configuration.

Some chargers have an "extension kit" that allows longer reach. Some specify that the kit is required and that simply lengthing the output leads will cause the charger to malfunction. Verify this before you buy a charger.

As for the boat wiring. If the gauges are indeed powered via the positive and negative busses, that means the positive buss is fed from the "A" (accessory) termiinal on the ignition switch. If that were not true, then the gauges would be active all the time. That also means power for ALL accessories is received via the ignition switch and the engine wiring harness. That also means you need to be carefull how much power you pull through that system. This is NOT the recommended way to power stuff in a boat and is the reason boats generally have a "BOAT" harness and an "ENGINE" harness. The boat harness runs from the starting battery, through a breaker, to the fuse panel/buss at the helm. Only the guages get powered through the ignition switch. But if what you have works, then just heed the caution about pulling too much power through the engine harness.

Well I know the TnT and Trolling motor work without the ignition being On. The bilge and what sounds like a blower(maybe livewell?) also work with no key in ignition. I'll look tonight and be able to provide more info. Thanks for your help. You guys are the best!!! And I mean that!

 

[MassillonBuckeye]

Re: New boat, Opinions on wiring configuration.

ok well the batteries are wired in series so apparently thats a 24v 36# thrust motor? Doesn't seem right but w/e. I didn't dig too far into the electrical last night. I took out the captains chair/live well trying to get to the fuel vent which seems like its clogged.

Charging procedure for a 24v bank? And I hope I'm right when I say Serial. They have the positives wired to the negatives.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: New boat, Opinions on wiring configuration.

On a "parallel" sysem (still 12 volts) the negative on each battery are tied together and the positives are connected together. In a 24 volt system the positive on one battery goes to the negative on the other. The remaining positive and negative go to the troller and provide 24 volts. The two systems are shown below:

This is a 24 volt system with a dual bank on-board charger.

This is a 12 volt system with two batteries wired in parallel. You can charge this system with a single bank charger connected to either of the two batteries. It will take twice as long to charge both of them as it would a single battery.

 

[MassillonBuckeye]

Re: New boat, Opinions on wiring configuration.

Hmm, so unless I want to buy a 4 bank charger($$$$$$), I'd have to wire those parallel to charge. Not real worried about charge time as I usually only fish once or twice a week at best. Occasionally I'd do a friday/sat but I also probably wont use that trolling motor a whole lot. I've got a 7.5 merc I plan on using for my troller and pulling crank baits etc. Have to decide if I even need the electric troller at all. Not really a bass fisherman. Good info. Thank you.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: New boat, Opinions on wiring configuration.

No -- you don't need a four bank charger. You can charge all four batteries with a single output on board or portable charger if you want to. What that means however is you just can't charge them all at once. In your case you could get by nicely with a dual bank on-board charger for the troller batteries. Even though you may not use them much, a 6 amp Guest (brand) or similar would do nicely to keep those topped off. Where this my boat I would then add a 1.5 - 2.0 amp battery tender for the starting battery. That leaves the second battery. But a simple switch would allow switching the battery tender from the start battery to the other battery. So there are lots of options and yes -- a four bank (or two dual bank) chargers would be best - but again depending on how you feel about tending to the batteries, a good quality single portable charger would work as well for a fraction of the cost. Requires time on your part but that's a decision only you can make. If you had a dual battery switch between the start and second battery, a three bank charger would work with one bank tied to the COM terminal on the switch. Leaving the switch set to BOTH when the charger is powered would charge both batteries. Lot's of options for you.

 

[MassillonBuckeye]

Re: New boat, Opinions on wiring configuration.

This sounds like a solid configuration. You like the Guest stuff? I reliable I take it? batterys and chargers always made me kinda nervous , the risk of short circuit or something and blowing up a battery Someone had the two batteries in the rear wired + to + and - to -. The battery connected to the starter has no other connections other than the jumper to other battery, all accessories etc run off the other. Would this be a good application for a battery switch? How could that apply?

 

[Silvertip]

Re: New boat, Opinions on wiring configuration.

There is a bunch of information, pictures and diagrams of dual battery switch setups on this forum. Just use the search feature using keywords "Dual Battery Switch". Here is a diagram of what a dual battery switch installation looks like. When used for the starting and auxiliary battery you can start the engine from either or both batteries, charge either of both batteries, run everything from either or both batteries, or completely kill the electrical system depending on which positiion you have the switch set to. It doesn't get any more versatile than that. What the diagram below does not show is that ALL accessories should be wired to the COM terminal of the swtich.

 

[MassillonBuckeye]

Re: New boat, Opinions on wiring configuration.

There is a bunch of information, pictures and diagrams of dual battery switch setups on this forum. Just use the search feature using keywords "Dual Battery Switch". Here is a diagram of what a dual battery switch installation looks like. When used for the starting and auxiliary battery you can start the engine from either or both batteries, charge either of both batteries, run everything from either or both batteries, or completely kill the electrical system depending on which positiion you have the switch set to. It doesn't get any more versatile than that. What the diagram below does not show is that ALL accessories should be wired to the COM terminal of the swtich.

What is the recommended method of connecting the multiple +12 leads to the switch? I have 3 or 4 now I believe. They have ring terminals on the ends. And maybe 6-7 NEGATIVE leads coming back to that battery. Where do all the grounds go? To the battery still I assume. Where should I locate the switch? Also assuming it's going back near the batteries, so to switch it I'll have to be able to access from inside boat. It'd be nice to have the switch near the helm, but thats a lot of cabling and added resistance?

 

[Silvertip]

Re: New boat, Opinions on wiring configuration.

A dual battery switch can be used ONLY with two batteries. So the starting and auxiliary battery would need one switch. If your trolling motor is indeed 24 volts you don't need a switch as the two batteries can be left wired in series without one discharging the other when not in use. If the two troller batteries are in parallel, then some sort of disconnect between them is recommended for long term storage but you don't need a dual battery swtich for that. A simple ON-OFF battery switch will do that. Contrary to popular belief, you don't need to be mucking with the battery swtich all the time. Before you start the engine, set the battery switch to BOTH and then head where you want to go. If you are going to be fishing in one spot for an extended period of time (several hours) with other electronics running you would switch to BAT 2 (auxiliary) to protect the start battery. Ground wires are attached wherever ground is. If there is a ground buss at the helm they are connected there. If they currently are run al the way to the batteries they can be connected there. Look at the diagram carefully. You will see the ground terminals on the two batteries are connected together so it doesn't matter which batttery they connect to. With all due respect, I can tell from your questions that is project is probably beyond your capablility. Decide what you want and have someone familiar with wiring help you. You can create some serious electrical issues (including fire) if you don't understand how all of this works.

 

[MassillonBuckeye]

Re: New boat, Opinions on wiring configuration.

A dual battery switch can be used ONLY with two batteries. So the starting and auxiliary battery would need one switch. If your trolling motor is indeed 24 volts you don't need a switch as the two batteries can be left wired in series without one discharging the other when not in use. If the two troller batteries are in parallel, then some sort of disconnect between them is recommended for long term storage but you don't need a dual battery swtich for that. A simple ON-OFF battery switch will do that. Contrary to popular belief, you don't need to be mucking with the battery swtich all the time. Before you start the engine, set the battery switch to BOTH and then head where you want to go. If you are going to be fishing in one spot for an extended period of time (several hours) with other electronics running you would switch to BAT 2 (auxiliary) to protect the start battery. Ground wires are attached wherever ground is. If there is a ground buss at the helm they are connected there. If they currently are run al the way to the batteries they can be connected there. Look at the diagram carefully. You will see the ground terminals on the two batteries are connected together so it doesn't matter which batttery they connect to. With all due respect, I can tell from your questions that is project is probably beyond your capablility. Decide what you want and have someone familiar with wiring help you. You can create some serious electrical issues (including fire) if you don't understand how all of this works.

Well I know enough to not connect something if you are not sure. I've wired enough amplifiers and car stereos when I was younger to know the basics. Worst I ever did was somehow wire my horn to my dome light in a 1977 Pontiac Catalina! Hit the horn and the dome light came on.. My mom still razzes me about that. I realize ground goes to ground. You'd like to have a common grounding point front and rear so you aren't grounding everything everywhere. You also want the shorted path to ground. I know this. That doesn't change the fact there are 6 wires connected at the aux battery negative post. One jumpers to a bolt in the hull. So I'll try to clean that up. My goal I believe is to just have battery cables at the batteries... I am confident I can wire this successfully, I am asking a lot of questions because I wan't to be certain since I've never wired anything like this. And the previous owners have obviously not done it correctly. So there is a lot of second guessing here and clarification of what might seem to you, very simple questions. It's not that one might have understand at all, its that they want clarification.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: New boat, Opinions on wiring configuration.

Get ground wires OFF the bolt on the hull. The hull of the boat is not a ground point. Ground on a boat is the negative terminal of the battery(ies).

 

[MassillonBuckeye]

Re: New boat, Opinions on wiring configuration.

*Correction. Its bolted to a bracket on the gas tank. Which the fuel sending unit is also connected to. It's just the fuel sending unit and the jumper to the battery on that connection.

Sorry for the false alarm

grounds. Battery is out.

I ordered one of these:
http://www.iboats.com/Blue-Sea-Syst...1902457--**********.227814072--view_id.729810

Would you bolt them down onto that decking beside the battery? I'll take a better pic of the battery compartments.

 

[MassillonBuckeye]

Re: New boat, Opinions on wiring configuration.

Is it common to use a ground buss near the batteries and jumper to neg batt terminal or just wire the few grounds directly to negative batt terminal? I have the lead coming from helm, 1 coming from gas tank and 1 coming from each of two pumps.

I'd also like to install a fuse or breaker. BlueSeas diagram shows a fuse in the Negative jumper connecting both batteries. The diagram here for just generic boat wiring shows a 15amp breaker in the +12 going to helm from battery bank and 50 amp in the trolling motor circuit. The trolling motor breaker is a given, and I believe is already in place. 30 or 50 amp I have to check. Should I fuse or install breaker in both the negative battery jumper And the +12v going to helm/console?