New to me '78 Chrysler 85, need some gremlins sorted out!

[jamwad]

Hi Experts,

I have just bought an oldish boat with a Chrysler "Charger Deluxe" 85 on it. Model is 859HA I think... I have been reading through your amazing collection of forum posts, and now have a few questions... All your replies seem to start with "whats the compression?" So I picked up an honesty gauge at the parts shop yesterday and read 150 on all 3 cylinders.

Didn't start, which I traced to the starter solenoid, replaced that... Got it running OK on the muffs, so took her down to the water for a look... It ran badly first time I took her out, I have since found the tank was contaminated with water, so I will sort that out in the next couple of days.

So firstly... The battery is not charging, seems that someone has replaced the regulator with a newer one. I am suspect of the wiring of it though, I have attached a pic. There is a sticker on the reg, but the writing is long gone, I can't see any other markings to decipher how it should be wired. Is this reg a usual replacement model, or something way out of the ordinary?

2. The temp sender is broken, I found the orange wire just dangling... I will fit the tell tale mod from the stickys while I am at it. Can this sender be replaced with a sender for a proper gauge easily?

3. There is a hose that comes straight down off the bottom of the front of the motor, right below the lower carb, its not attached to anything, should it be?

4. The interlock switch looks to be disabled... should I track down parts for this? When I move the shifter, the linkages dont come in contact with the switch, so something is missing from it.

5. I have downloaded the original service manual off someone elses thread... I would like to get a new aftermarket book too, is the Clymer or the Selco the better book?

6. What else should I be checking before I trust it?

7. Does anyone have a pick of one of these "deluxe" motors restored or new? It looks to have had blue sides to the cover and Charger written in rainbow colored text... I can't find a pic of one anywhere, would this be a stock paint job? Does deluxe mean anything in this case?



Sorry for all the questions at once...

Jamie

 

[chrome dome]

Re: New to me '78 Chrysler 85, need some gremlins sorted out!

in your third pic you have the earth ( black ) screwed onto the ignition (blue ) connection, l don't think that will be helping your cause much at all LOL
it should be on the last terminal used, ie hooked up to the other black connector, it's usually colour for colour, so you can see if something is wired properly

having said that...my blue goes to a different shade of white LOL,
:facepalm:
and welcome, btw

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: New to me '78 Chrysler 85, need some gremlins sorted out!

Judging by the three wires in the separate black wrap, you have a Motorola ignition with distributor. If so, that is not the correct rectifier for the engine and May or may not work--I don't knoe, I never tried. It is a Merc rectifier and yes, it is wired correctly.
The correct regulator/rectifier is a relatively large, finned aluminum box, held on with three screws.
HOWEVER: In the third photo, the terminal block is NOT wired correctly. The black ground is connected to the blue power. If it is not connected under the dash, then no harm/no foul. However, it should be connected to the next terminal down and can be used as a common ground for gauges etc.

Now--back to the blue. There are two blue wires attached to the terminal board. One powers the CD box electronics and the other powers the electric eye inside the distributor. BOTH take power from the bluse wire attached to the "I" terminal of the ignition switch. The red wire is constant hot and charges the capacitors inside the CD box. It takes power from the battery and alternator.

If you are not charging the battery, Disconnect the red battery terminal. IF the alternator and rectifier are working, the engine will continue to run. It will stall immediately if they are not delivering power. Thus: If the engine continues to run, look elsewhere, like corroded fittings, in the wiring for a non-charging problem.

The hose attaches between the manifold and bottom of the airbox. Its function is to recycle spit back and condensed fuel into the manifold. It is a metered orifice and if the hose is disconnected it will not cause problems.

There should be a small cam on the gearshift lever which depresses the interlock switch button in neutral. This prevents you from starting in gear. Yeah, I would get it operating correctly for that one day when somthing distracts you and you ram the dock when it starts.

Clymers is better than Seloc.

ASSUME that anything that can be out of adjustment IS! Set everything back to factory specks and you will be able to trust the engine to not starnd you. BE very careful with carbs. Incorrect setting or dirty carbs lead to lean running which will melt pistons.

SO: remove carbs, disassemble and clean well, then reset according to my sticky. Replace fuel pump diaphragm and gasket. Put a cheap inline filter BETWEEN the pump and carbs. Replace the water pump impeller and change lower unit oil and you should be good to go.

 

[jamwad]

Re: New to me '78 Chrysler 85, need some gremlins sorted out!

Thanks Guys,

I have done some more investigating, and haven't found the culprit yet... I have ordered a Clymer, but will take a week or so to get here I guess.

I checked all the wiring today against the wiring diagram... the "3 and 4 cylinder Magnapower Breakerless electronic iginition" one. Frank does that fit with what you thought? ie Motorola ignition? The distributor and CD unit look to be factory as per the diagram.

Re the black cable connected to the blue terminal on the motor... seems someone has decided to use the black cable to drive the overheat device? On the wiring diagram there is nothing connected to the black terminal at the key end, whilst the overheat device is connected to the blue. My boat doesn't have a terminal at the key end, everything is directly connected, hence why they have used the black for the heat thingie...

While I was chasing that I found that the white and purple cables are not hooked up to anything at the key end. Wiring diagram says the white should be hooked to key, any idea of the effect of this?

The diagram shows the purple wire off the regulator is goes through the terminal on the motor, up to the terminal at the key end, and then no where??? what should it be connected to? Just a lamp to say that its charging?

When the motor is at idle, I am reading around 7 VAC of the stator terminals on the regulator, the battery is reading slightly lower than when the motor is off, so no charge still... Stator measures 1.2 Ohms disconnected, sound about right? Maybe I should check magnets?

In the "up to 2006 basic trouble shooting guide:" that swampthing uploaded in another thread, which chrysler steps refer to my model? the doc seems to offer Points type, Magnapower II or ADI type, is mine ADI? or none of the above?

The plug leads and caps look to be almost dead to me, the caps don't clip on nicely, and the cables are all old and hard. Seems can't buy anymore, can I just use car ones from local parts shop?

I have ordered carb kit, and fuel diaphragm and gasket. plus I am going north past the wreckers on Thursday, see if I can find a tacho of some sort and the temp sender unit.

Let me know what else I can check before I head to the wreckers...

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: New to me '78 Chrysler 85, need some gremlins sorted out!

Chrysler used the Magna-Power term loosely but yes, your Magna-Power breakerless electronic ignition is Motorola. White is a tachometer signal and purple is also a tach signal. The difference is White is a signal derived from the CD box and counts pulses. Purple is an A/C signal off the alternator and USUALLY is only used with the 20 pole tachs on later engines--your engine has a 12 pole alternator and these tachs will not work off your A/C signal. You need a standard outboard tach set to (3) on the back. If you can set it to count three pulses OR if you can take an inductive signal off the top plug wire, an auto tach MAY work. Without a tach, white is not used and to keep it from flopping freely under the dash it is neater to connect it to one of the "M" terminals on the switch. "M" terminals are open with the switch on and closed with the switch off. Thus: Connecting the white to one is safe. They are not connected to anything else and are usually used to kill a magneto ignition engine.

Wires need to be stranded wire core. Automobile resistor wires will not do. (oh, they may do but are not recommended).

Since black is an unused wire, it can be used for anything and in your case it is used to power the overheat indicator. The confusion is that 1. Black is usually reserved for ground (earth) and 2. As it is used now, it takes power from the engine terminal instead of the ignition switch. Perhaps the orange wire is broken or shorted. If the orange is indeed broken or shorted, disconnect the purple from the rectifier and use that.

It would be much less confusing and neater if you ran power from the "I" terminal of the ignition switch to one wire or terminal of the overheat indicator or gauge, then used the orange (or purple)wire to run from the other wire of the indicator to the engine terminal board where the wire from the sender connects. NOW: There can be a temp sender located in the top of the head and this would drive a gauge, OR (most likely and stock) there will be a bimetal switch screwed into the head near a sparkplug. This is a simple overheat indicator and closes when too hot. This allows the buzzer or light to go to ground and function.

Then, put black back where it belongs on the engine terminal bar and use it under the dash to ground gauges

The blue wire off the ignition switch also needs to be connected to the "I" terminal. This is what supplies power to the CD box when the switch is on and kills the engine when turned off. Note that at the engine, two blues are connected to it: One to the CD and one to the Distributor.

STANDARD wiring on your engine is: Yellow-start. Purple- Not used, White-Tach, Green-choke, Orange-overheat, Red-batt or power, Blue--power to CD box and distributor, Black--Ground (earth).

I know the stator should be low ohms, but do not remember exactly what value. However, they usually fail all the way with either broken or burned wires (infinite ohms) or a short (zero ohms).
So, it is a reasonable assumption that magnets are bad--but I have never seen bad cast-in magnets. Still----

As far as voltage, the alternator will not produce full voltage until somewhere above 1000 RPM so 7 volts at idle MAY be correct. You need to do more electrical checking here. My bet is still the incorrect rectifier.

 

[jamwad]

Re: New to me '78 Chrysler 85, need some gremlins sorted out!

Well, I got the old dead stator out, retested with a different meter, and was a short to earth... I have a 2nd hand one ready to go in, but I broke the distributor belt in the process... There is always something else!

Got an old Chrysler tacho, haven't wired it up yet, I have set the switch to 3, and wire it to white. The 3rd "LT" marked pin on the tacho is a light?

New plug leads are in, didn't realize just how bad the old ones were until I disassembled the dizzy.

Temp sender is in, and wired correctly... and the tell tale squirty hose thing is fitted.

Going to pick up another belt tomorrow at the wreckers, hope I can get on the water this weekend!

Thanks again

Jamie

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: New to me '78 Chrysler 85, need some gremlins sorted out!

That belt can be bought new from a Goodyear distributor--you need not pay the full price for a Chrysler branded one. AND, I think there is a post (not mine) from a couple of months ago where someone gave the actual belt number.

Inspect very carefully the belt you get from the junkyard to be certain it has no cracks. Unless it looks absolutely new, consider it an emergency spare just to get you on the water this weekend. Remember, if that belt breaks, you are stuck on the water,

Now: When you go to install the belt, do not get it too tight. If it is too tight, the engine will have problems shifting into and out of gear. Too loose and timing will wander.

The correct method is to adjust the distributor so that when the belt is pushed in the center with the tip of an .010 flat feeler gauge, it deflects about 3/16 inch before the gauge bends. Be aware that the distributior mount is usually not 100% true. When you tighten the two mounting bolts it usually cocks just enough to tighten the belt some. I usually leave the bolt in the slot loose and snug the bolt in the hole. Then I pull the distributor out until the belt is snug and gently tap it until the belt isa correct tension. Then I tighten both bolts and re-check belt tension. You don't need to be too fussy, there is some leeway on belt tension before it causes problems.

 

[jamwad]

Re: New to me '78 Chrysler 85, need some gremlins sorted out!

Thanks Frank,

Your tips on the belt were spot on, first time I had it too tight and the advance wouldn't go, but all sorted now.

I have installed the 2nd hand belt, and ordered a new one from the US... Here in Aus they are US$80, like everything else, damn expensive. I am still waiting on my other stuff to arrive from over there (manual, fuel pump diaphram, carb kits).

Got her on the water, runs fine at neutral, bit low on idle about 500? runs like crap in gear though, no power, didn't get over maybe 2000 under load @ WOT. the fuel bulb wasn't hard, felt maybe half full? Brand new fuel/oil and tank.

Might strip these carbs in the mean time while I wait for the postman.