New (to me) after 35+ yrs need advice....

parttimr

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Hi all,
Recently purchased a 1993 Sea Ray 180 Bowrider with a 4.3L Alpha One Mercruiser. Growing up we always had outboards but decided to go this route instead for our large lakes here in ND. Boat is in great condition and the vinyl seats are in good condition with very little cracking in the driver's seat. Took it out this past Friday after replacing the alt belt and battery. Prior to this had used the water muffs to check it out at home. So here is the dilema.

Motor is in great condition (contacted previous boat shop the previous owner took it to for winterizing and care, they said nothing had ever needed to be done to it) original looking paint all around on it as if nothing has ever been apart except the (two) drain plugs on the block. The problem is it is very hard starting. Manual says to push in the button on the throttle and pump it twice then to neutral and attempt to start. Instead it take 4-5 times doing this and pumping it approx 6 times. Once it starts it runs great and will immediately start right up again until it sets over night and then back to square one. I know this is very hard on the starter and don't need to replace that either. Here are the serial nimbers I can find on all parts of the motor and stern drive. Any help would be appreciated. Am looking at also buying the 1992 thru 2000 manual off iboats if this is the correct one for this motor. Sorry so long.

Engine Serial # 0F003200 Portion of out drive that attaches to the Transom 0F043531 Lower Unit #0D882510

Thinking it may be a carb problem but unsure if the button on the side of the throttle acts as a choke/primer and the butterfly not closing or if I have a needle set problem or if the key is to be in the on position when pumping the throttle for an electric fuel pump or not. Again all help is appreciated.
 

rbh

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Re: New (to me) after 35+ yrs need advice....

Hi and welcome aboard-
First thing, you have big lakes in ND? LOL
Make sure your chokes working and when you do a full pump on the throttle you see a good shot of fuel coming into the carb throat.
 

frantically relaxing

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Re: New (to me) after 35+ yrs need advice....

Since "it runs great" after it starts, it's a 95% probability that your carb's accelerator pump is shot. Kinda like the primer on my one lawnmower, I can push it all day, but unless I squirt some gas in the carb it won't start--

You need to check the pump shot. If you (can) disconnect the throttle cable from the carb you can just test it yourself. Open the choke plate with one hand, and slowly but smoothly push the throttle to wide open with the other hand. You should have 2 very noticeable squirts for the full duration of your throttle push. If instead it drips, dribbles, quits squirting before you're at WOT, or just plain no gas squirts out, you've found your problem.

As for the chokes- I have the easiest to start engines on the planet in our houseboat, and I set the chokes so that when they're fully closed down at around 50? outside and the engine's cold, there's still at least an 1/8" air space remaining. If the engines haven't been started within a week, one push and back on the throttles is all it takes. If longer than a week, I give it 2 pushes. And all I have to do is blip the starters and they're both running and idling smoothly.

That said, if you find that your pump shot seems okay, then check the choke-- how tightly shut is the choke plate when it's cold? If it's quite tight, you might be flooding it, and/or starving it for air...

I still think your accel pump is gone. Even with a wide open choke on a 20? morning, IF the accelerator pump is shooting fuel, an engine WILL start with just a couple of pumps of the throttle. Might be hard to KEEP it running with a WO choke, but you're having the opposite problem...
 
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Re: New (to me) after 35+ yrs need advice....

Hi. First, with the engine cold, remove the spark arrestor and check the position of the choke plate. It should be almost closed. If it's open, pump the throttle once and check again. If it's not closed then you need to fix the choke.
Also, when starting a cold engine, after pumping the throttle two or three times, don't move it back to neutral - leave it about 1/3 forward.

Edit. To answer your last two questions - the button on the throttle lever just disengages the lever from the shift cable - it doesn't do anything to the choke/carb. And the ignition has to be on before pumping the throttle as the fuel pump has to reprime the carb.
 
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tpenfield

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Re: New (to me) after 35+ yrs need advice....

Could be accelerator pump, or could be that fuel is slowly draining down from the carb when not in use. That would account for the extra cranking and pumping of the throttle.

Sounds like you have an electric fuel pump ??? Try turning the ignition on for about 10-15 seconds before you go through the starting routine. If that make a difference, then you have your solution.
 

parttimr

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Re: New (to me) after 35+ yrs need advice....

Thanks for all the input guys. Have had someone suggest the accelerator pump and the issue of the butterfly not closing. Don't know if this motor has an electric fuel pump though but it was also suggested I could have a needle seat issue for the bleed off. Will try to look into all suggestions and see what I find. Trying to find a manual so as to rouble shoot these issues. If the test of the accelerator pump finds to be bad where is it located? Can tear my motorcycle down in my sleep so think I can handle this as well with the forums help.

We do have I believe the largest man made lake in the states up here in Lake Sakakawea so yep large lake in ND, lol.
 

Chris1956

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Re: New (to me) after 35+ yrs need advice....

Those are all good suggestions. Your powerplant is a good one for that boat. I had the same setup on my '88 SR. You very likely have an electric fuel pump. You probably have an electric choke, which heats up with time to reduce choking. Other than that the carb is likely a marine verson of a Rochester carb. Another way to start that motor is to push the throttle only button and pump the throttle while cranking the motor. As soon as she starts, pull the throttle back to just above neutral position. She should start in 5-10 seconds or so.
 

parttimr

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Re: New (to me) after 35+ yrs need advice....

@ Chris1956 I did try the pumping as I cranked it but as soon as I take it out of neutral it quits cranking. Owner's manual says one forward and back to 1/4 but if not in neutral it won't crank. Due to work load will get to it on Saturday and give feedback. Need to figure it out soon ready to put it up for the winter up here.
 

Chris1956

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Re: New (to me) after 35+ yrs need advice....

The throttle-only button at the base of the throttle arm must be pushed in to advance the throttle (still in neutral) to starting position. If that doesn't work, you will have hard starting.
 

salty87

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Re: New (to me) after 35+ yrs need advice....

since this is a new (old) boat for you....while not the cause of your problems, 20 yr old battery cables may be contributing to the situation. give one a good bend and listen/feel for crackling and popping, that's a sign of corrosion under the plastic sheath. good time to inspect the terminals & make sure the ground on the engine block is clean and tight, too.
 

parttimr

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Re: New (to me) after 35+ yrs need advice....

Well her's an update. The good news is after getting home from work decided to try to start it using the guidance provided concerning the throttle only button and throttle position. Turned key on for 10-15 sec pushed in the button and pumped it once then back 1/4. The darn thing fired right up after sitting since last Sunday. "I tried this approx 6 times while watching to ensure the butterfly on the carb was closing and it did every time and then I throttled back to idle. Now the bad news is the oil pressure started going up to around 60 or so from the usual 40 and the engine would turn off but start right back up if I tried. I went ahead and changed the fuel filter/water separator filter and yes I did fill the new filter with gas before re-installing. After that I tried to start it to circulate the fule thru the filter and now it will crank but not start at all and now the butterfly won't close. Just when I thought it was operator error at knowing how to start the darn thing now this. Any ideas once again fellas?
 

rbh

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Re: New (to me) after 35+ yrs need advice....

Put a small shot of gas (1 ounce+-) down the carbs throat and then start it, this should get it going.
 
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Watermann

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Re: New (to me) after 35+ yrs need advice....

Try priming the carb while cranking to get things going again, just be careful.
 

parttimr

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Re: New (to me) after 35+ yrs need advice....

I have thought about doing that to the carb first thing in the morning but still doesn't explain why when I throttle forward the butterfly isn't closing now when it was immediate prior to changing the fuel filter. Makes no sense since I did nothing to the carb. seems something went wrong with the linkage or something still scratching my head. Also figured since filling the fuel filter that would prevent losing any prime already in the system. Will see if this works in the morning and get back. Just wish I could figure out the butterfly issue now.
 

rbh

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Re: New (to me) after 35+ yrs need advice....

I have thought about doing that to the carb first thing in the morning but still doesn't explain why when I throttle forward the butterfly isn't closing now when it was immediate prior to changing the fuel filter. Makes no sense since I did nothing to the carb. seems something went wrong with the linkage or something still scratching my head. Also figured since filling the fuel filter that would prevent losing any prime already in the system. Will see if this works in the morning and get back. Just wish I could figure out the butterfly issue now.

If I had to guess what butterfly you are referring to I would guess it was the choke and the reason it is still open is because there is a bie metal (SP) coil that keeps the choke open when it heats up, or its a electric choke and the key needs to be on to make it work.

It should be closed in the morning if its the bie metal coil.
 

parttimr

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Re: New (to me) after 35+ yrs need advice....

Thanks for all the help guys. After guidance on how to use the throttle only button and throttle to start it properly all is good. Did find the float was a bit bad so doing an entire carb rebuild and replaced all plugs since they looked like they were never changed and terribly fouled and sooty. Changed all filters as well and now up for winter. I also have the manual for it now so things make a bit more sense. Thanks gain.
 
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