oil leak....have to pull engine to drop oil pan??

[Wildcats]

Great site...Checked the archives & couldn't find anything on this. I hope you guys can help.<br /><br />I have a '98 Crownline 182 with a Volvo 4.3L V6 (basically it's a GM block with Volvo add ons.) I am trying to fix an oil leak that appears to be where the oil pan meets the block just under the torsion damper. I was hoping I'd be able to drop the pan in the boat 6-8" enough to replace the gasket and add blue sealer around it.<br /><br />I've removed 5 oil pan bolts on each side & the pan drops about an inch all the way around, but appears to be hung up on something else along the back side of the pan. Shouldn't the pan drop straight down with the bolts out or does the oil pump pickup shield prohibit it? The less than trustful local dealership is telling me I have to pull the whole engine to drop the pan which I'd really like to avoid. Secondly, it is OK to use the blue silicon gasket sealer liberally on the oil pan gasket, isn't it?<br /><br />Any help would be greatly appreciated.<br /><br />-Pat

 

[akriverrat]

Re: oil leak....have to pull engine to drop oil pan??

when i did mine nothing internally kept it from coming down.1990 production year 4.3 gm. but mine has 6 bolts and 2 nuts per side. permatex ultrablack. it's not the crank seal leaking?

 

[akriverrat]

Re: oil leak....have to pull engine to drop oil pan??

but i did have to pull sheetmetal gaurd off bottom front of bellhousing. pan hug up on bolts.

 

[Wildcats]

Re: oil leak....have to pull engine to drop oil pan??

Thanks for your reply, akriverrat. It's been a while, but I actually installed the oil pan & to the best of my recollection, it just went straight up & bolted in with the bolts along each side. Where were the nuts you had to remove?<br /><br />I thought about the bell housing as you mentioned, but it seems just to mount to the back side of the block with nothing under the oil pan. Are you thinking there might be bolts through the back side the pan gets hung up on?<br /><br />The block is a rebuild from an outfit here in town, it hopefully isn't a crank seal that's leaking. If the leak is right at the corner of the block, how would I be able to tell whether it's the pan or seal?<br /><br />Thanks again,<br />-Pat

 

[flashback]

Re: oil leak....have to pull engine to drop oil pan??

Im thinking along the same lines as AK, although oil pan gaskets can leak it is much more probable that it is the front main seal.....

 

[flashback]

Re: oil leak....have to pull engine to drop oil pan??

Im thinking along the same lines as AK, although oil pan gaskets can leak it is much more probable that it is the front main seal.....

 

[akriverrat]

Re: oil leak....have to pull engine to drop oil pan??

my flywheel gaurd actualy fits over the rear lip of the pan. the 4 corners of the pan have studs with nuts. this is all much easier with a jet. loosen the 4 motor mount nuts and lift engine till pan can be wormed out. driveshaft and wires and fuel/water lines stay attached. had to raise about 4" back, 8" front.

 

[akriverrat]

Re: oil leak....have to pull engine to drop oil pan??

seal would probably be slinging oil off damper.

 

[Wildcats]

Re: oil leak....have to pull engine to drop oil pan??

Once again, I’m appreciative of all of your input. Unfortunately I’m not having the best of luck removing the oil pan. I’ve felt and eyeballed around the pan & don’t see any additional studs coming up through the bottom or even through the flywheel bell housing in the rear holding it in. I would think if it was the sump pickup guard inside the pan causing problems, it would drop about the same amount on both sides and would probably just pull the sump pickup right out as it’s only a pressure fitting. Seems to just be a bolt/stud on the left side at the rear. Don’ t know that even pulling the engine would help. May have to try removing the bell housing even though it doesn’t appear to be restricting anything.<br /><br />As far as determining whether it’s oil pan or front seal, the timing chain cover encloses the main seal & torsion damper, doesn’t it? So if it was the front main seal, wouldn’t it be held in that enclosure & just dribble out?<br /><br />Any help would be greatly appreciated. I’m unfortunately on the verge of taking it in, likely tanking the summer with the way our local shop is and paying who knows what.

 

[flashback]

Re: oil leak....have to pull engine to drop oil pan??

wildcats, Im not sure if the oil would stay in the hollow area an dribble out or not. I do know that it is easy to damage the seal when installing the dampener. This is just a thought so please don't take it for gospel....good luck.........

 

[akriverrat]

Re: oil leak....have to pull engine to drop oil pan??

sorry i mentioned seal. if it were bad the harmonic balancer and possibly crank pulley would be covered with oil and there would be oil on engine cover, bilge, waterpump from oil being slung off when engine running.

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: oil leak....have to pull engine to drop oil pan??

front main seal is hammered into the timing chain cover. It seals on the harmonic balancer. If it is leaking, oil would be all over the balancer and slung everywhere.<br /><br />Could your starter be hanging up the oil pan? How bout the dipstick or dipstick tube?<br /><br />Ken

 

[bernieb]

Re: oil leak....have to pull engine to drop oil pan??

Spend the couple of hours and lift the engine up to where you can work on it.Two years ago my oil pan had pin holes in it for my oil leak.Pulling the engine is not that big of a job,have help.I pulled my 350 chev using three 2x4s holes at top with chain and rope through holes at the bottom (sm knots in 2x4 okay)using come-along to lift.Best to pull outdrive.Add a safty chain to above and take all precautions while you have your hands under.

 

[Wildcats]

Re: oil leak....have to pull engine to drop oil pan??

Thanks again for all your input, guys. It's been helpful & I hope I can return the favor with my experiences. I'm not making the best progress, but as I seem to be hearing some conflicting opinions, hopefully I can clear a few things up on both removing the oil pan and ruling out front main seal leak.<br /><br />My preferable course of action would be:<br />1) drop oil pan with engine in boat and reseal<br />2) pull engine myself if necessary to remove oil pan<br />3) (least desirable) take boat into dealership if necessary to re-align engine or to remove oil pan.<br /><br />Now pursuing option 1 I've removed 5 bolts from each side of the pan, and the starter from the starboard side. Now refer above to my previous post, the pan is hung up & I can't figure out why. Assuming it's probably the sump pickup guard inside the bottom of the pan, how would the pan drop out even if the engine is removed? Does it need to slide backwards into where the flywheel bellhousing is now or should it wiggle out? Guess I need to get a visual of how the sump pickup goes in under the shield.<br /><br />Now if option 1 isn't available (need to pull engine), I was thinking I'd have to take it in because I've been told you have to align the engine when you drop it back in even if you just lift it an inch & it requires special tooling. I've pulled that lower unit & engine before, so it doesn't spook me if that's what has to be done, just thought the realignment is beyond my tooling.<br /><br />Just want to hopefully seal an oil pan. Do I need to pull the engine & if so does the dealer have to realign it?<br /><br />I'm still curious about determining oil pan vs. main seal leak. I've heard some people say the damper would be slinging oil all over, but the timing chain cover has a rubber seal around the damper shaft and a seal against the block. Would I still expect oil everywhere if it was the main seal?<br /><br />Anyone/everyone who can help will be new additions to Wildcats Christmas list. Thanks for any help.

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: oil leak....have to pull engine to drop oil pan??

I cant help you on the oil pand dilemma, I wouldnt think there would be any baffles that would hang it up on the pickup tube, but its possible.<br /><br />On you leak problem, Oil leaks can be really wierd. They look like they are coming from one place, but it is really from someplace far away. I had to chase an oil leak on my car one time that took me a month to find. It turned out the balancer seal was off center, due to a cheapo timing cover.<br /><br />Some terminolgy confusion may have come into play on these posts and I hope I can clear it up.<br /><br />I really dont call any of the seals at the front of the block the main seal. There is only one main seal and it is at the back of the engine by the flywheel. It seals the crank and these can leak easily.<br /><br />Then there is the front balancer seal, which seals the crank. Check to make sure your seal is centered on the crank. Mine was way off center and lef a huge gap for the oil to fling out.<br /><br />Lastly there is the oil pan seal which has several variations. It has cork gaskets on each side, then rubber for the front and back. These are really hard to install properly without having them leak.<br /><br />I believe felpro now makes a one piece oil pan seal, that is supposed to cure oil pan leaks.<br /><br />Ken