Old school aquamatic questions

[crwsound]

Hey,
As the saying goes, "long time listener, first time caller". Thanks everyone on these forums for all of the useful info I've gleaned over the years.

And onto my questions. Yesterday I picked up a 60's era Aquamatic with the matching outdrive it had been paired with (for $75). Specifically, the ad read "1967 110/200 Volvo Penta outdrive and four cylinder Volvo engine". Neither have been run in 17 years.

First question: whatever i.d. plate that used to be on the engine is gone, I was only able to get the serial number. All of the number stream that I can see on this engine is - B20 4969 12 19836. The number stream I'm able to get off the outdrive is - PZ NR = 203981S. Is there a way to turn this info into the more common "AQ110 engine with a 200 outdrive" information that I'm used to looking at? I'm assuming that's what these are since that's what it was listed as, but I'm just looking to find out if there's a way to confirm that.

Here are some pics of the engine and outdrive, which will lead to my other questions:



So obviously I have to get a new distributor and ignition coil (and starter, more on that later). I'm wondering if the ignition coil has to be a marinized version (I know the dist. does) or is the car version of the coil the same as the marine?

I'm not familiar enough with the flame arresters for the carbs. Does the pic showing them show that everything is there or are there pieces missing from the flame arresters? Not sure.

Lastly, he gave me as separate pieces a replacement impeller and starter. I just want to make double-check sure that the starter is the marinized version...is there a way to tell just by looking at it? Or checking serial numbers? Here's a pic of the starter:



Thanks everyone for any info you can provide. I haven't been much of an engine guy before...but I'm going to become one.
Chris

 

[Don S]

Re: Old school aquamatic questions

I'm afraid you wasted 75 bucks on that. There are no parts available for that engine. Volvo doesn't even list that engine in the parts catalog anymore let alone parts for it.
You can download an owners manual for it from here http://www.volvopenta.com/volvopent...lication_search/pages/publication_search.aspx but without parts, you are in trouble. The best you can hope for is used parts on ebay, CL, etc.

Personally, you should just junk it now and not attempt to resurrect that from the dead.

What exactly are you trying to do, make the boat original? If so, you better have some deep pockets.

A fun old boat, if so, look for a bit newer Volvo 4 cylinder with a 280 or newer drive (93 and older) if you go newer, you will be looking at a transom rebuild and a much smaller cutout.

 

[Nickypoo]

Re: Old school aquamatic questions

The good news is that you may be able to use the outdrive with one of those newer Volvo engines Don is talking about. That is if it is in good condition.

The bad news is that engine is scrap.

The bellhousing you have there I know for a fact fits Volvo B21 and B230 engines, which would essentially make it an AQ125a or AQ125b, respectively. You may be able to pick a decent one up at a salvage yard for pretty cheap that was pulled out of a car. They're fairly common. But then you would still need to marinize it with marine parts such as an alternator, distributor, starter, carburetor, camshaft, exhaust manifold, and heat exchanger.

All in all, this is going to cost you a lot more than $75 if you want to continue.

 

[crwsound]

Re: Old school aquamatic questions

Hey Don,
Thanks for getting back to me, although of course I wish your news had been a bit more along the lines of "Well done! You've got some work in front of you, now get to it!" Oh well.

To answer your question, here's exactly what I'm trying to do: make this engine and outdrive work. That's it. It may seem simplistic, but that was my goal in getting this. I don't have a boat for it to go with. I intend to GET a larger boat at some point, one that uses an I/O or just an inboard, but right now I have a 17' runabout with an Evinrude 70hp outboard which I repaired last year (new powerpack) and I don't intend to re-power that boat. I just wanted to learn about straight engine's and outdrives.

Hmmm, so I can't buy parts new. I have seen used distributors on e-bay, and I'm fine going that way. I still don't know the answer to the question about the ignition coil - can an auto coil be used? Also, any idea on the starter question?

I realize that asking these questions again after your advice to junk the engine makes me look stubborn. I am, at times, but then aren't the lot of us stubborn who do work on things like this? I know, there are different degrees of banging your head against the wall, so I guess maybe this is a pretty hard wall. Still and all, I'm wondering if you or anyone can provide the answers I asked for. Please realize I don't mean any disrespect by asking again, I just want to know the answers. Armed with more information than a blanket "don't do it" I can look at parts on (as you say) e-bay, CL and locally Second Wave (which I bet you know about since you're in Western WA) and then decide if I want to continue on my fools errand to resurrect this engine, or scrap it as you suggest. More concrete information never hurts a decision process...as the info you've given me regarding "no new parts" is useful.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[Nickypoo]

Re: Old school aquamatic questions

This combo should be an AQ130. If you are adamant about using the engine then you will probably have to rebuild it with new rings, gaskets, bearings and such.

Starters have to be "ignition protected"

 

[crwsound]

Re: Old school aquamatic questions

Thanks Nickypoo for the multiple getbacks. I like the good news about the outdrive!

I'm not sure whether I'm adamant about the engine or not, yet. I'm just looking for information and so far all the info is "steer clear, it's junk". I figure if I can resurrect an engine like this than I know a bunch more about engines than I did before. I was wondering about the new rings and pistons, etc. I figure if I do a compression test and I'm looking at all new parts in the block (if it even turns over) than that informs my decision process even more. I'm just dipping my toe in and trying not to anger anybody who wouldn't touch this with a ten foot pole while I try to decide if I want to take a next step, and a next step.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[Don S]

Re: Old school aquamatic questions

Anyone can resurrect an engine with enough parts and information. Problem is, you are going after an engine that has neither available.
I can set here and blow smoke up your butt all day long and make you feel good, but dude!!!! The cold hard facts are it's really old rusted up junk with no parts available nor repair information.
You might find parts that say it's 4 a Volvo 4 cylinder, but that doesn't mean it's going to fit that engine. Where do you plan on finding carb kits? After 17 years of sitting, they are garbage.
The 200 drive is also really old, and most parts are still available, at a price.
just think about what you are doing, with that $75 purchase, you can expect to pay thousand to get it all in working order.

 

[Nickypoo]

Re: Old school aquamatic questions

Ok, well I understand if you are using this project more as a learning tool than a solid basis for a boat. You can roll the dice and who knows, maybe it will last you a while.

I guess you should do a compression check first while it's in one piece so you have that information. Then you could pull the head and check out what you're working with. Just throw the old starter you have on there for now to do a compression test. Doesn't matter if it's marine or not for this purpose.

If the cylinder wear isn't too bad then you can just clean up the pistons, install new rings, do a quick hone job, and throw the pistons back in.

There's a chance that the bearings are ok, but you would need to gauge them.

The head will probably will need to be gone through.

I don't have an answer as to whether the starter you have there is marine. Maybe someone else will know.

 

[crwsound]

Re: Old school aquamatic questions

Hey Don,

Okay, thanks. I didn't know a carb is garbage after sitting for 17 years. I'm sure it's completely obvious to tons of people, but I'm not an engine guy. I thought you could clean a carb up with gasoline if you took it apart. I asked the questions I could think to ask, and any questions that I'm not asking that you can answer I'm grateful to hear. And I don't even need it delivered with smoke.

Believe me, I AM thinking twice about what I'm doing, with y'all being pretty against it and for solid reasons. I don't want to spend crazy money on this, I'm just learning. I may not be able to get parts, as you say, but I actually do have repair information, the shop manual for the engine - I just wanted to know for sure which version of engine it was.



And thanks Nicky for the advice. I was thinking about just that - putting the starter on and seeing if it would even turn over and then doing a compression test. But I figured I'd ask the questions first about the other parts I knew I'd need to replace.

One thing I'm confused about: if I'm reading you right, the outdrive combo with the later engines (B21 and B230) are lower numbers (AQ125A and B) than the combo with the B20 engine that I have, AQ130...am I getting that right?

Thanks again,
Chris

 

[Don S]

Re: Old school aquamatic questions

Actually, the 125 is the newer engine. It's the OHC engine that Volvo went to after they dropped the 130 and 140 motors.

Carbs get plugged up when old gas sits for 3 or 4 years, if there was any water or moisture in the carb, it also becomes corrosion. You cannot clean a carb with gas and expect it to work. Even if gas would clean it, you still need a carb kit to put it back together.
In marine engine, 50% of the carb rebuilds don't work because the passages are plugged up with corrosion. But if you can't get a kit to put it back together, what's the difference. You can't reuse old gaskets, seals, etc.


Without carbs, distributor, exhaust manifold, fuel pump, and a few other accessories, fixing the block is nothing more than a waste of time and money. You still can't make it run.

But hey, if you and Nickypoo think it's a good idea, put on your rose colored glasses and go for it.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: Old school aquamatic questions

I would bolt them together, blast them and then paint them, and make a statue out of them, or start parting the drive out to sell on ebay.

 

[Nickypoo]

Re: Old school aquamatic questions

Don, what's your deal man? I was advising him against fixing up this motor too. I think he's fully aware of our opinion on the matter. We've moved past that now and I was only answering his other questions about it. Sheesh.

 

[crwsound]

Re: Old school aquamatic questions

Well, thanks for the further information about the carb rebuild kit, again, I didn't know I would need to replace/fix the carbs. I'm guessing that your bet is I would have to replace the fuel pump also because it just aged out...I already knew I needed a distributor. And a coil.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[dcairway]

No Title

Don S is wrong, I own a Volvo Penta AQ 110/200 (1968) and I have managed to purchase all kinds of parts and locate parts for it online. Ebay, Marine Parts Express, Repower Marine Ltd. and yes the pics you show are identical to my engine and outdrive, except mine is operational.

 

[dcairway]

I have engine pics but they wont upload due to too many bytes, but if you are interested I can email them to you.

 

[crwsound]

Hey dcairway,

Thanks much for the get back...interesting that there are still parts available. However, in the end I did end up getting rid of both the engine and outdrive (you may have noticed that this post was started a few years ago). I sold the outdrive to someone who actually needed it and scrapped the engine since it looked like a bad investment of time and money. Surprisingly, I got back more for the two items than the $75 I'd originally spent. So that worked out - lucky.

In the meantime I just finished doing a complete tear down and rebuild of the Mercruiser 350 in my 28' Tollycraft. So I know a bit more about engines at this point, which is good. And how expensive it is to rebuild them, which is bad.

Anyway, thanks again for your post. I always appreciate more info.

As a side note - one of the moderators (Fun Times) had closed this listing after your post but then re-opened it when I tried to reply and couldn't (thank you sir). He wanted me to mention that Don S is no longer able to reply to posts as he passed on a little while back. I know he's very missed on these forums.

Thanks again,
Chris

 

[GA_Boater]

Because we have closure and since you no longer have the Aquanautic, we'll close it again. The thread is still good reference for future readers.