Optimize performance

Glenmac

Seaman
Joined
Aug 6, 2004
Messages
68
I am having a tough time getting optimal performance out of my boat. Have a 03 Crestliner CMV, 17', 115 4S Yamaha. Had a 19p 13 1/4 prop on purchase (5300 rpms at WOT and 48mph- I was told I should be able to get 50mph). Had 2 problems initially, porpoising and issues with getting max rpms at WOT. Had wedges placed on transom (per dealer rec), raised engine one hole and put a 17p prop (aluminum) on. This got rid of most porpoising, and raised RPM to 5700-5900 at WOT. I recently bought a SS prop (trying to get the best performance possible) from dealer.(a Honda prop on dealer rec-that is what he had in stock-with a slightly larger diameter-13 1/2-and he stated a 18p) and raised the engine one more hole (c-plate now about 1/2" above bottom of boat).I took it to the lake yesterday expecting max rpms and faster top end riding alone with no signif load. I could only reach 5100 rpms at WOT and my top end was significantly decreased to about 40mph. I called dealer and he stated that he would order another prop but had to get a 16p because he couldn't find a 17p and that this should help improve my situation. I am very disappointed after spending $340 on a SS prop which I thought would really help but actually gave me poorer performance than with my aluminum blade. <br /><br />Any suggestions in your experience. Have thought about trim tabs initially with porpoising but this seems to be resolved.<br />Thanks,<br />Glen
 

wvit100

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 6, 2002
Messages
416
Re: Optimize performance

Your not going to get anymore speed out of that boat without a larger engine. 48mph with a 115 is good. I had an 18'6" cuddy with a 125 on it and could get only between 40 and 45 depending on the load. Spending bunches of money on props and stuff isn't going to change the speed much.
 

Glenmac

Seaman
Joined
Aug 6, 2004
Messages
68
Re: Optimize performance

I realize that I won't get 50mph etc. but was more concerned about losing performance with the SS prop and wondering as to whether you feel that the rec's by the dealer are reasonable, should I continue to shoot for using a SS blade properly fitted or just go back to an aluminum blade, understanding the pros and cons of both. He is a nice guy and I have no reason to not follow his advice but enjoy expert opinions based on experience.<br /><br />Thanks for the reply and help.
 

KM2

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 15, 2003
Messages
556
Re: Optimize performance

I would be happy with the 48mph on your boat and motor. My fathers 1750 Crestliner with same motor does low 40's on the GPS. Every boat speedo I have ever seen shows higher speeds than GPS.
 

Jdeagro

iboats.com Partner
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
Messages
1,682
Re: Optimize performance

Apparently your best performance was with the stock prop and no wedges, and the motor lower in the water. However you had porpoising issues. <br /><br />Now you have tried all of the "Popular" recommended solutions for more speed and reduced porpoising, and you are worse off. <br /><br />I am truly sorry to see this happen to you or anyone. Although experimentation is required to optimize performance, everything that has been done and that has been recommended to you revolves around the "Prop". Changing pitch, Diameter, raising the motor and the transom wedge all are trying to improve the performance, AND fix the handling problems with the prop. Just how much more can be expected from one single devise that was only designed to "Propel"?<br /><br />Stainless Steel props are sexy, macho, cool, and a status symbol, but not the "end all" solution to performance. The next thing you will hear is to increase the HP.<br /><br />Everyone is totally ignoring the other half of the equation. The Hull. You would not build a 1000 HP engine put it in a mini van and enter the Indy 500.<br /><br />The initial problem of attaining more speed was porpoising. It was apparently so much of a problem that you needed a transom wedge to tuck the motor in further to reduce the porpoising. Next, the engine was too low (could be) so you raised it and the porpoising is nearly gone. What have you done in reality? Tucking the motor under more only served to increase the running angle of the prop. The prop is most efficient when perpendicular to the surface of the water (square). Tilting the prop to push "up" on the stern (and down on the bow to reduce porpoising) slips the outer edges and reduces forward thrust. The transom wedge allows you to increase this inefficiency. <br /><br />Increasing the prop pitch and diameter plus the other changes seems to have caused the engine to fall outside of it max torque curve, or raising the engine the extra hole is causing the prop to ventilate. <br /><br />The first thing you need to do it fix the hull. Fix the porpoising, but not with the prop. Yes I am going to recommend Smart Tabs, not simply because we make them, but because they will remove the job of correcting the handling issues (ie; porpoising) from the prop. The tabs will allow the boat to run cleaner, and then the correct prop can be chosen. By adding Trim Tabs you are adjusting the hull design to compensate for the changes in speed, weight, water, balance etc. Porpoising is a balance issue! In the case of Smart Tabs there is an added dimension, the system is active and "tunable" to the individual boat. You would have achieved the extra 2 MPH with Smart Tabs, and done so without any other additions or changes. We guarantee it! Then you can raise or lower the motor to achieve the optimum X dimension, and experiment with props to get even more speed. <br /><br />I understand that this is not the conventional, popular, or macho approach, and trim tabs do not enjoy the performance image of a stainless steel prop but they work. Note that an F14 and Indy cars have adjustable "wings". Use the prop to propel - period. Give them a break, they are over worked!
 

wvit100

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 6, 2002
Messages
416
Re: Optimize performance

All sales pitches aside, mid 40's with that size boat and motor is doing good. I wouldn't spend anymore money on it, spend the money on gas and beer or buy a new tube or knee board and have fun with what you have. You will not even notice the extra couple of mph.
 

jim dozier

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jan 8, 2003
Messages
1,970
Re: Optimize performance

I have a 17' semi-V pad hull that I recently increased the hp from 85 to 115hp Evinrude 2-stroke. So my hull/motor combo is similar to yours. I got 40 mph (GPS) with the old 85 and I got 49mph (GPS) with the new engine after doing some prop comparisons and engine heights with a jackplate . There was 2-3 mph difference between 2 stainless props I tried. There was 2 mph difference with different engine heights. There is a difference between props of different pitch and there may be a difference between different brands of props with the same pitch. Test Test Test. All that said if you're at 49-50 mph based on my boat you're doing OK. You might see 50-51 with the right prop, engine height, smart tabs, etc. but I don't think you are going to get another 5 mph out of it.
 

Jilly - 5

Seaman
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
Messages
74
Re: Optimize performance

I've read some great advice here. Very strange that almost everyone wants to "top end" their boat, struggling for 5500 rpm over 5400 rpm, or 49 mph over 47 mph. Reasonable people certaintly don't do that with their automobiles. Instead, we look for "hole shot" more than anything else (0 - 60 mph in xx seconds!) and cruising economy. No one pushes his car to WOT or looks for 90 mph over 80 mph, or changes tire diameter for speed (pitch)or tire width for traction (blade surface area). Enjoy the wind in your face and whatever aft rooster tail you have at 45 mph - that's pretty fast on hard water!! You wouldn't hang your head out the car window at 45 mph! I guess not having trees and guard rails in close proximity, and other boats in adjacent lanes gives rise to feelings of openness, abandonment and blow-out. Relax, or you'll kill yourself, an especially dreary prospect since you're not really going anywhere.
 

Jdeagro

iboats.com Partner
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
Messages
1,682
Re: Optimize performance

Jilly-5<br /><br />I am not necessarily a WOT boater either, and easier planing, smoother ride, and better economy suite my old bones better. However, tuning the boat to it's best top speed means that the hull is efficient at any speed. We typically see better fuel economy at cruising speed of 20 to 26 MPH in the 12% range.<br /><br />Higher pitch props (if the boat can handle it) will turn the engine less at any given speed. With the tabs you can get the hole shot (actually not because there will be no hole) with the higher pitch. It's like having your cake and eating it too. But remember Tabs are not sexy like SS props, and "if the boat needs trim tabs there is something wrong with the hull". Third biggest lie in the world!!! You all know the others.
 
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