Oregon tax hike goes down in flames!!

LubeDude

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Joined
Oct 8, 2003
Messages
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Oregon tax hike goes down in flames!!

Thank God the people spoke with there vote! NO MORE TAXES!!! The problem now will be that they will punish us by firing police, firemen and shortening the school year!! Trying to prove to us they really need the money!
 

Toad2001

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
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Messages
403
Re: Oregon tax hike goes down in flames!!

Re: Oregon tax hike goes down in flames!!

Maybe people will realize the hike would have been cheaper than a new set of shocks and struts worn out from potholes created from the taxcuts?
 

Homerr

Commander
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Messages
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Re: Oregon tax hike goes down in flames!!

Re: Oregon tax hike goes down in flames!!

YYEE HAAAWWW!!!<br />No more taxes for you Mr. Tax-N-Gouge-Me !<br /><br />I agree... If they don't cut something major, they will tip their hand that they were full of BS.<br /><br />It will get interesting from here.<br /><br />I still say Oregon needs to hit rock bottom before they realize what they have done.<br /><br />NO MEANS NO Oregon state!<br /><br />H.
 

JGREGORY

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Re: Oregon tax hike goes down in flames!!

Re: Oregon tax hike goes down in flames!!

Hey Oregon your not the only one with the problems. At least you get to vote on your taxes. Here in New Jersey we do not have that luxury. <br /><br />We just had a report come out that the transportation infrastructure is in dire need of repair with 10 major artery bridges listed as critical. Meaning that they can not be fixed they have to be replaced. One span alone will cost roughly $45 million. <br /><br />Politics in the last 12 years, 8 of it under a Republican administration, has been playing a shell game with our money. :mad: <br /><br />They take money from some dedicated fund then give us a tax cut and tell us what a wonderful job they where doing, and the Sheep believed them. :mad: <br /><br />So now we are stuck with a major problem and because we have been lied to for so many years we don't believe what we are being told. <br /><br />Government needs to get out of the Social Engineering business and concentrate on their basic mission. Security, economic prosperity through a good infrastructure, and maintaining commerce. This is just the short list. But I want to Know how did we get to the point where people expect the Government to maintain their standard of living with out putting there fair share into the effort. <br /><br /> Stop the Social Engineering, NOW!!!!!!!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:
 

ZmOz

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Re: Oregon tax hike goes down in flames!!

Re: Oregon tax hike goes down in flames!!

banana.gif
<br />Is it clear yet Kulongoski? You're alrady taking too much of my friggin money...if you can't run the state with that find a different way to do it! :mad: :rolleyes: <br /><br /> :D :D
 

JoeW

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Re: Oregon tax hike goes down in flames!!

Re: Oregon tax hike goes down in flames!!

Government needs to get out of the Social Engineering business and concentrate on there basic mission. Security, economic propesperity through a good infrastructure, and maintaining ommerce. This is just the short list. But I want to Know how did we get to the point where people expect the Government to maintain there standard of living with out putting there fair share into the effort. <br /><br />Stop the Social Engineering, NOW!!!!!!!!!!!
I couldn't agree more!
 

Bigfun

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jan 21, 2003
Messages
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Re: Oregon tax hike goes down in flames!!

Re: Oregon tax hike goes down in flames!!

Get ready for alot more fee's and fines. They will get the money somehow. Here in Mi. they created a fine of 190.00$ if you do not have your insurance paper work with you, does not matter if you have insurance. I guess they figure if you can afford insurance whats a measly 190.00$.
 

ZmOz

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Re: Oregon tax hike goes down in flames!!

Re: Oregon tax hike goes down in flames!!

Originally posted by Bigfun:<br />Get ready for alot more fee's and fines. They will get the money somehow. Here in Mi. they created a fine of 190.00$ if you do not have your insurance paper work with you, does not matter if you have insurance. I guess they figure if you can afford insurance whats a measly 190.00$.
Oh yeah...we got plenty of fee's. I just paid $110 for a TITLE TRANSFER on my new truck... :rolleyes: :mad:
 

plywoody

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Re: Oregon tax hike goes down in flames!!

Re: Oregon tax hike goes down in flames!!

Hmm...<br /><br />I am curious. Assuming you are not charging that the local politicians are stuffing this money under their collective mattresses, or some Swiss bank acount, then what services currently provided would you like to see cut to balance this shortfall in Revenue?<br /><br />They tend to cut those services first to those with little political clout, but they have already cut out things like vocational rehab funding to the disabled (I know because my daughter was collecting it for a time--now she is on a full private scholarship and does not need it)<br /><br />So they are going to have to cut real services somewhere, as Oregon is not allowed to run a deficit budget--they've already cut the length of the school year in at least some districts in Oregon, and Oregon schools are currently not fulfilling the requirements of "No child left behind"<br /><br />They've already been reducing the sentences and early releasing some prisoners.<br /><br />Where exactly is all the fat you would cut to be able to balance the Oregon budget without increasing revenue--?<br /><br />Let me guess--any program that does not directly and specifically benefit you should be cut...
 

JGREGORY

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Re: Oregon tax hike goes down in flames!!

Re: Oregon tax hike goes down in flames!!

You Know something Plywoody if it wasn't for the fact I'm a nice guy I would be losing my cool with you. ;) ;) <br /><br />You asked,
Where exactly is all the fat you would cut to be able to balance the Oregon budget without increasing revenue--?<br /><br />Let me guess--any program that does not directly and specifically benefit you should be cut... <br />
Let's make something clear here Government has basic obligations. Providing for you, ME, or any one else is not their function.<br /><br />Example here in New Jersey, the state has announced that they are cutting Funding to families with Downs children. WTF, Apparently the state (meaning Me and everybody else that pays taxes) has providing free health care and therapy aid to these families. <br /><br />Now this may sound callous but I did not have that child, I have to care for my own children and I receive no subsidy from any one. Last time I checked there were tests to check for birth defects during pregnancy. If you can't afford the care do not have or put the child up for adoption.<br /><br /> NOW I AM NOT SAYING THAT SOME SOCIAL CARE SHOULD NOT BE AFFORDED. HOWEVER, the Government is required to maintain certain segments such as, infrastructure, jails, courts, security, schools...etc....<br /><br />We have major highways and bridges in this state which are obsolete or in such disrepair that they can not be fixed they have to be replaced. We have over crowding in jails,etc.... these issues need to addressed first before we start giving endowments and grants to the arts, before we give grants for higher education, etc.... I AM NOT SAYING THESE THINGS ARE NOT IMPORTANT, BUT let us take care of the basics first then if there is $$$$$$$$$ left over lets prioritize programs as to their importance and fund them. If taxes need to be raised to get things fixed right then do it. BUT do not take money from my pocket and give it to some special interest group that funded your campaign. You (the politician) loss my faith and I will become more reactionary the next time you take my money. <br /><br />Again Social Engineering is fine Provided that you have met all the other requirements the state is supposed to take care of. There is no excuse for a bridge about to fall apart, a road so bad for travel no one would take it, Prisons that are over crowded, etc...<br /><br />There I'm off my soap box now. :eek: :eek:
 

ZmOz

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Re: Oregon tax hike goes down in flames!!

Re: Oregon tax hike goes down in flames!!

Very well said jg. Oregon needs to quit with all the bullsh*t programs getting all my money. They have waaaaaaaaay too much going on to support all these programs we don't need. Sure they might make life better, oh well. If you want that kind of thing you pay for it yourself - like I do. I don't get any kind of handout from the state nor would I ever accept one. Sometimes life is hard, but that's your problem to deal with, and it shouldn't come out of my pocket.
 

Homerr

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Messages
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Re: Oregon tax hike goes down in flames!!

Re: Oregon tax hike goes down in flames!!

Well said Oz...<br /><br />I agree. Put all the BASIC needs up front and trickle down the rest... a 'pecking' order so to speak.<br /><br />Certain things need money. Schools, public service. The rest is secondary.<br /><br />I am sick and tired of paying for some crackheads therapy while he/she sits on welfare money during their rehab. I didn't stick the needle in my arm. I didn't get knocked up by fly-by-night Daddy and have the state pay my way.<br /><br />MY family comes first, not Miss Welfare queen and her 10 multi-cultural children. They need money? get a job... perhaps the ones Pres. Bush wants to give to the illegals. <br /><br />Like before mentioned... Cut out the 'save the Amoeba foundation' or whatever save-this-or-that BS cause.<br />Oregon wastes money, and the voters have finally had enough. They WILL stay within their budget and like it.<br /><br />H.
 

Boomyal

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Re: Oregon tax hike goes down in flames!!

Re: Oregon tax hike goes down in flames!!

But Homerr, Oregonians caaare! :p <br /><br />Plywoody, as I said before, you should move to Oregon and 'contribute' as you see fit. If you still don't get it at least the people of Oregon finally did. <br /><br />Every time there are good times the state just keeps 'heaping on' all the new little government responsibilities and programs. I don't care what party they belong to today. If they are elected, that becomes a license to figure out how to grow the government and spend more money.<br /><br />With the way you perceive things, there is no limit to what personal problems the state should involve itself in.<br /><br />How in heaven's name do you think that we ever built and ran the schools, built the roads and libraries, funded the police and prisons,built the roads and highways and built the sewers on considerably SMALLER PERCENTAGE of our incomes than they now think that we should 'contribute'?
 

Homerr

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Re: Oregon tax hike goes down in flames!!

Re: Oregon tax hike goes down in flames!!

Tried to link this to play when you click it... Hope it works. If it doesn't, just click 'open' when it asks.<br /><br />Here's something for the PRO measure 30 folks:<br /><br />Click Here <br /><br />-<br />-<br />-<br /><br />And of course... For those of us that were smart enough to vote NO:<br /><br />Click Here <br /><br /> :D <br /><br />H.
 

plywoody

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Joined
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Messages
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Re: Oregon tax hike goes down in flames!!

Re: Oregon tax hike goes down in flames!!

Hmmm...<br /><br />Ok, now I get it. Your view is that society should be completely Darwinian, and controlled solely by principles of "survival of the fittest". No silly social programs, or expensive programs like Child Protective Services, or Special Education and the like.<br /><br />That's fine. I just wish all of your candidates you support would just be honest and run on that platform. It's sure to be a winner at the polls.
 

Homerr

Commander
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Messages
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Re: Oregon tax hike goes down in flames!!

Re: Oregon tax hike goes down in flames!!

Child protective services?<br />Now there's a contradiction in terms! <br />Those people and services need to be abolished.<br /><br />Coming into your home to TELL YOU how to raise your newborn... Yes sir... that's a program we need to spend money on.<br /><br />Honest candidate? HAHAH!! <br />What is that?<br />I'm not supporting any of them, nor will I vote for Bush unless he changes his tune on letting the illegal aliens invade.<br /><br /> :D
 

JGREGORY

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Re: Oregon tax hike goes down in flames!!

Re: Oregon tax hike goes down in flames!!

Plywoody, You don't get it. :mad: :mad: <br /><br />This is the 2003-2004 fiscal year budget appropriations for NJ<br /><br />1.8% or $442 million in debt service<br />4.7% or $1,136.4 million in capital<br />41.5% or $9,960 million in State Aid<br />30.1% or $7,226.2 million in grants<br /><br />The balance is Operations of the State. Look at those Numbers. Over 70% is Dedicated to some sort of Social Program Or Aid. Now some of it is for good purposes, ie Aid to municipalities for various road improvements or schools for repairs.<br /><br />While a lot of it is bullsh*t, such as free Cond*ms in school, Needle exchange program for Drug addicts, Grants to the arts who's freedom of expression would make some of the most liberal of us puke. And why are we giving money to artist anyway?? :confused: And this is just the short list.<br /><br />But in the mean time we have 12 bridges that are so far gone they can't be repaired. And these are not little bridges these are major State Highway Bridges or Interstate Highway bridges. We have Interstates that can not handle the traffic that is on them that need major improvement like another lane added to them. We have Schools that are crumpling they are so old or have leaky roofs.<br /><br />BUT, Aid to schools and municipalities as been flat for the last 7 years. THAT MEANS; NO, ZERO, NADA, NOTHING, ZILCH increase in funding to towns and schools who must provide certain items because of state mandates. What that means is that everyones Property taxes(or should I say Roberty taxes) has increased 14% every 2 years for the last 6 years.<br /><br />At some time the system has got to collapse. We cannot continue to give money away while the life, the main artery of commerce and education crumble. <br /><br />That being said, there are some tough choices that need to be made, Our Governor last year said there would be across the board cuts in programs, Well you should have heard the whining. Then the 2 faced Bastage turns around to the lobbyist and tells them to go after their Representatives for the programs to be reinstated and he will not oppose them. <br /><br />Yes Some Social programs are necessary, But after the State requirement to maintain, Commerce, Education, Security, and Infrastructure are fulfilled. <br /><br />If there is Money left over after that has been accomplished, Some needs to be put away for a rainy day and the rest can go to programs based on the societal need of importance. ie.. Programs for battered women, special need kids, etc.<br /><br />And No society is not Darwinian, But you tell me where is it in the Government charter that they must provide special items for certain people who have made life CHOICES that have resulted in their situation.<br /><br />Maybe, if people had more money they would be able to contribute to charities in a greater number. And if the government provided better incentives for people to do so Government MIGHT be able to get out of most of the social programs they are in. Because Government, with the bureaucracy, is inherently inefficient. I know I work for it.
 

Boomyal

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Re: Oregon tax hike goes down in flames!!

Re: Oregon tax hike goes down in flames!!

I'll tell you JG, the system has duped so many people into Plywoody's view of the role of government I fear we are nearing the point of no return. <br /><br />At the sake of being repetitive, I'll repost this quote: <br /><br />This memorable quotation is from Sir Alex Fraser Tytler (1742-1813). Scottish jurist and historian, he was widely known in his time and was professor of Universal History at Edinburgh University in the late 18th century.<br /><br />The quotation is from the 1801 collection of his lectures:<br /><br />"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury. From that time on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the results that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.<br /><br />The average age of the world's great civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence:<br /><br />from bondage to spiritual faith; (1)<br /><br />from spiritual faith to great courage; (2)<br /><br />from courage to liberty; (3)<br /><br />from liberty to abundance; (4)<br /><br />from abundance to selfishness; (5)<br /><br />from selfishness to complacency; (6)<br /><br />from complacency to apathy; (7)<br /><br />from apathy to dependency; (8)<br /><br />from dependency back again to bondage." (9)<br /><br />WHERE ARE WE TODAY ? ? ?
 

Bigfun

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Messages
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Re: Oregon tax hike goes down in flames!!

Re: Oregon tax hike goes down in flames!!

#8. And this pattern fits in with a saying I read from someone, I think it was a communist. Something to the effect of- In order to gain control of people you have to get rid of religion and keep them happy with sexual freedom.- Seems to be working.
 

plywoody

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Re: Oregon tax hike goes down in flames!!

Re: Oregon tax hike goes down in flames!!

If you are going completely off the wall and incomprehensible, I will give up.<br /><br />First of all, we don't live in a democracy, we live in a representative republic, and we all can take it as a given that no form of government is perfect, nor is it perfectable. No matter who is elected. OK.<br /><br />Now then, all I wanted to know was if Oregon was going to cut 800 million out of their state budget, just exactly what you all think should be cut? I don't think it fair that the same service level is expected, while providing significantly less revenue to fund it. It is not realistic.<br /><br />It is why I don't like the initiative process, as there is no responsibility on the part of the voters to explain how the legislators are to implement their vote, nor can there be a clear understanding by the voters of what their vote really means. We set up a representative democracy for this very purpose--in that the people do not enact the laws, the elect the people that do it, and if they don't like the results, they are free to elect someone else.<br /><br />But to try to establish a legislature, and then have some outside group usurp the power of the legislature by directly enacting laws through the initiative process, can only lead to chaos.
 
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