oxidized gelcoat

[aspeck]

Any advice, or any way possible to restore oxidized gelcoat? Have tried buffing with Dupont 606s, then waxing with Blue Coral. Looks great for about a week, then the oxidation returns. Dark maroon, so it shows quickly and is bad. Boat is only 20+ years old, so don't know why the paint is looking a little rough? <br /><br />Any suggestions, or am I just going to have to repaint her?

 

[crazy charlie]

Re: oxidized gelcoat

I had the same problem and I just kept waxing it as often as I could.You can put formula 303 on it after waxing, it applies like armor all.It will make your wax job last longer.There are also some miracle cures that work pretty good like penetrol and vertiglass.You can get a year out of them if you apply it right.The only way to do it and make it last is to paint it. Someone in my marina said that they wet sanded and clear coated their gelcoat and claimed it looked new.I never saw that boat so I cant really say on that one. Charlie

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: oxidized gelcoat

Just find a good local fiberglass autobody pro and pay him to come and buff the boat out for you. I did that with my 79 formula and it looked great and still does over a year later.

 

[aspeck]

Re: oxidized gelcoat

I do have some experience with auto body and have buffed it out many times. It is at the point where the buff and wax job lasts a little less than a week!

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: oxidized gelcoat

What did you use for a buffer and compound? My guy used a big pro autobody buffer and some special compound. I haven't even waxed the boat in a year and it still looks great... This boat is 23 years old and was not well cared for for at least the last 5 years before I go it. It sat pretty much uncovered even during nasty NE winters. Before that it was sitting on a mooring for a few seasons. I dunno - maybe Formula used really good gelcoat or something...

 

[aspeck]

Re: oxidized gelcoat

I have an air buffer and a big electric buffer left over from the auto biz. Used Dupont 606s rubbing compound for the buffing. When I first started the buffing treatments, about 10 years ago, it looked great and would last a year. Now it doesn't. It is the maroon, non-metallic, which, in the auto industry, will tend to fade or oxidize faster than most other colors. Have tried a couple of different products from the local marine shop. Worked for a few weeks, then back to the original fade and oxidize pattern.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: oxidized gelcoat

I am pretty sure he used a special 3M compund - when I say special I mean not generally available to people outside the trade. I think it was from their marine division but I can't be a 100% sure. I was busy rebuilding other parts of the boat.<br /><br />I do know the stuff got all over the place and we had a heck of a time getting it off the house. For some reason I remember it as being blue in color but I could be wrong. <br /><br />It took him 3 - 4 days to buff the boat but once he was finished it look almost brand new. He makes a good side living buffing oxidized boats. He is good but expensive. It cost me $350 as I recall for a 28' Formula with an 8' beam.

 

[aspeck]

Re: oxidized gelcoat

It's a shame he is not closer here! I will check with my "marine" specialist and see if he knows of any blue buffing compound from 3M. Thanx!

 

[crazy charlie]

Re: oxidized gelcoat

The reason your gelcoat looses its shine so fast is because most of the gelcoat pigment is gone and it is no longer sealed.Look very closely at it witha magnifying glass if you can and you will see tiny pore holes.That means what ever gelcoat is left has no moisture left in it.When you put the wax on it moisturizes the gelcoat until it dries out.Try waxing a section and covering that section for a week.It probably wont dry out so fast.If the boat had never been polished out and this was your first or second time polishing ,then it probably would last like Ralph claims his did,and like your did 10 years ago.Dont waste your time and effort,I have been there and done that.Charlie

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: oxidized gelcoat

Like I said, maybe Formula uses a better or thicker layer of gelcoat than other manufacturers. Anyway, here is a picture of the boat taken near the end of last season. Again, the boat is 23 years old and not well kept for the last 5 at least. It wasn't even fully covered beyond a morring cover. Note the boat isn't even waxed in the photo and I still haven't waxed it. I'm not in the habit of stating things that aren't true. It's not like I am gelcoat salesman or something <br /><br />CC, if the gelcoat isn't "sealed" then how does it provide waterproofing protection which is its main purpose?<br /><br />

 

[Maximerc]

Re: oxidized gelcoat

I sadly have to agree with Charlie , I have a 84 Baja with metallic grey I can polish till the sun stops shineing with my power buffer and I have used at least 10 diffrent automotive polishihing products to try to bring it back. I have not tried the Veriglass yet. One thing I have seen that makes it look great for a day is Yeild penatrating oil. It rubs on quick and easy too. It is not a fix though,, I too want my boat all shiney and new looking !

 

[crazy charlie]

Re: oxidized gelcoat

Ralphie boy,take a close look at a good gelcoat and a badly faded gelcoat,preferrably with a magnifying glass and you will answer your own question.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: oxidized gelcoat

So it loses its ability to prevent water penetration to the fiberglass and core?<br /><br />So I guess Formula uses a better ot thicker gelcoat. I guess Donzi is the same way as I saw him work his magic with an 80 Red one. I happen to see it the other day and it still looks just as good.<br /><br />

http://www.boatingmadesimple.com/gelcoat_repair.htm#gel_coat<br /><br />What Is Gel Coat?<br /><br />Unless your boat has been painted, the finish on it is composed of a resin material that contains color. That finish is called gel coat.<br /><br />Gel coat is applied over the fiberglass understructure of a vessel. Gel coat not only gives a vessel its sleek, shiny appearance but it also acts as a moisture barrier between the water and the structure. The higher the quality of the gel coat, the longer lasting the finish. <br /><br />The finish on a boat that has a poor gel coat tends to oxidize and appear chalky rather quickly. That dulling effect can be minimized, however, with the application of a quality carnauba boat wax. Most major boat product suppliers carry carnauba waxes, including Meguiar's's and 3M. When making your selection, just make sure that the product contains top-grade carnauba wax. Heller Glanz Carnauba Cream Wax, one of the best products available on the market today, uses only the best grade carnauba wax to ensure that your vessel is resistant to dirt, grime and further oxidation from stem to stern. Heller Glanz makes its carnauba cream wax from a special liquid formula designed to renew the luster of gel coat and fiberglass, while leaving each surface with a smooth, silky finish. It can be applied with a rag or buffer and it is easily wiped from the surface. <br /><br />Quality carnauba wax will restore your vessel's shine and protect it from the harmful effects of ultraviolet rays and salt water. Applying a fine, hard wax will also help protect the gel coat from the inevitable scratching it will sustain through normal use<br />

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: oxidized gelcoat

Interesting article:<br /> http://www.marinestore.com/fiberglass.html?cart=31442799674019 <br /><br />Nearly every pleasure boat on the water today is made from fiberglass and gelcoat for a good reason. Fiberglass boats are easier to make than wooden or metal boats, weigh less, last very long and are quite durable. So just how do you take care of them so they'll last and maintain their looks? In this page we describe why boats become dull and faded and how fiberglass waxes, polishes, and sealers like Vertglas keep them looking good.<br /><br />What is Fiberglass?<br />Fiberglass is a common term for fiber-reinforced plastic, or FRP, which is a plastic material strengthened using a fiber cloth. Most boats these days are made from fiberglass, along with pickup truck caps, motorhomes, even bathtubs! To give the fiberglass a smooth, shiny surface, a material called gelcoat is applied to the outer surface. For the most part, when you're looking at a fiberglass boat, you're really seeing the gelcoat surface on top of the fiberglass itself. However, most people refer to gelcoat as fiberglass, so we use the terms fiberglass and gelcoat interchangeably.<br /><br />Gelcoat is available in many colors and is fairly durable, but it can become dull or faded as it weathers. Sunlight and air combine to oxidize the gelcoat surface, fading it and making the surface cloudy. The oxidation process for gelcoat is similar to how metals rust or corrode. So how do you keep your gelcoat looking good? Simple: you coat the surface with either wax or a sealer.<br /><br />Faded and Dull Fiberglass<br />For boats which have been oxidized and have some fading or dullness, waxes and polishes may restore the shine but often don't maintain it for more than a month or so. This is because the gelcoat surface has microscopic pits and crevices in it from the oxidation, even after you have rubbed off the oxidized layer. When you apply wax over the surface, the wax is too heavy to penetrate into the pits and crevices. This is why oxidized boats usually never shine like they did when new, and more importantly, why wax doesn't last long. Because air is trapped in the holes and crevices under the wax, the gelcoat can oxidize underneath the wax! Fiberglass sealers like Vertglas avoid this problem by filling in all the holes, pits and crevices in the gelcoat surface.<br /><br />Fiberglass Sealers<br />Unlike wax, a fiberglass sealer penetrates into the gelcoat surface, filling in the microscopic holes and crevices to prevent future oxidation. The sealer provides a barrier between the environment and the gelcoat, cutting off the chemical reaction which creates oxidation. Because it fills in the surface so well, a sealer can provide a brighter shine than wax. Sealers also provide a much harder surface than wax, so they last much longer and don't require frequent maintenance. Our Vertglas sealer lasts up to 10 time longer than wax. Vertglas is a copolymer sealer that lasts all season and stops oxidation completely. One nice feature of Vertglas is that you simply wipe it on and let it dry. Since it dries crystal clear and shiny, you don't have to rub or buff it off.<br /><br />Click here for more information about the Vertglas sealer...<br /><br />Fiberglass Wax<br />Historically, boats have been maintained using either wax or polish. Waxes cover the surface and provide a barrier between the elements and the gelcoat surface. Waxes work well for boats in good condition, but not so well for older boats which have weathered a bit. After awhile, the wax wears off and the elements oxidize the surface of the gelcoat (similar to how rust occurs on steel or iron), resulting in a faded or dull appearance. You can remove the oxidation and reapply wax, but the wax simply covers over the pits and holes in the gelcoat surface, trapping air under the wax and starting the oxidation process again. Typically, using wax on gelcoat which has been oxidized before will only last about a month before the shine fades again.<br /><br />Fiberglass Polish<br />Polish products are similar to waxes but they also contain a small amount of abrasive which rubs off some of the oxidation and can restore a shine to the surface. These products work best for boats which are slightly oxidized. Polishing compounds are a similar product which have more abrasives and can remove heavier oxidation but do not provide any protection afterwards, so you need to apply some protective coating after cleaning (preferably a sealer so the process doesn't begin again...)<br /><br />Cleaning Faded or Oxidized Fiberglass<br />There really isn't any secret to cleaning faded or dull fiberglass, you just need some elbow grease and something to remove the oxidation such as Vertglas #1 Oxidation Remover. The application varies for different products, but in general you need to rub the surface with the oxidation remover or polishing compound to remove the oxidized layer. You then let the product dry to a haze and buff it off to reveal the clean (but not necessarily shiny) surface (note: Vertglas #1 Oxidation Remover doesn't require this buffing step). <br /><br />If your boat isn't shiny at this point, it's because the clean gelcoat surface is pitted and is diffracting the light instead of reflecting it. By filling in the microscopic pits you can restore the shine: To prove this, just apply some water to the surface and see if it becomes shiny. If so, you then need to apply something which will fill in the pores and maintain the shine (such as Vertglas #3 Color Restorer/Sealer).<br /><br />To use Vertglas #1 Oxidation Remover, first wet the gelcoat surface and apply the oxidation remover using a white Scotch-brite pad or sponge. Rub the surface until either you see color in the pad or sponge (indicating you've rubbed off all the oxidation and are now into the colored gelcoat), or until the surface no longer feels rough. At this point you simply rinse off the surface and wash away the oxidation residue.

 

[aspeck]

Re: oxidized gelcoat

Okay Ralph, I will try it - $75 is cheaper than a repaint. Will see what happens. Thanks for the info - it makes sense.

 

[boat doc]

Re: oxidized gelcoat

I have to disagree with most of these guys, sorry guys not trying to **** yall off. The tiny holes in the gel coat are called perosity, it is caused from thick gelcoat, or quickly cured gelcoat (from heat mainly). You can go up and pick out a 2003, and with a trained eye, pick out perosity, especially in boats that are sanded when they come out of the mold. What I think has happend is that in the past gelcoat manufactures did not use the UV inhibiters that they use nowadays. Darker colors , maroon, navy, black, are horable for fading. As long as your gel is thick enough, the best thing to do is a sand and buff, but you could probably get away with just a buff. Get yourself a buffing bar, and about a 1500 rpm buffer and a good wool pad. Get the orange (brownish/red) bar. Do not be afraid to put a little grunt behind that buffer, this is gel not paint. One last thing, try a little area first, make sure your gel is thick enough, so you do not buff it off. be carefull of pinstripe, decals, and paint, you will burn those off if you get them too hot. When you get the finish the way you like it, go and buy some Finnesse it II by 3m, thats some good stuff, will make that booger shine twice as much after buffing. Finesse it will not remove oxydation, and does not contain wax. After Finess it, use a good carnuba wax, and do not store your boat in the sun.<br /><br />have fun

 

[boat doc]

Re: oxidized gelcoat

Faded and Dull Fiberglass<br />For boats which have been oxidized and have some fading or dullness, waxes and polishes may restore the shine but often don't maintain it for more than a month or so. This is because the gelcoat surface has microscopic pits and crevices in it from the oxidation, even after you have rubbed off the oxidized layer. When you apply wax over the surface, the wax is too heavy to penetrate into the pits and crevices. This is why oxidized boats usually never shine like they did when new, and more importantly, why wax doesn't last long. Because air is trapped in the holes and crevices under the wax, the gelcoat can oxidize underneath the wax! Fiberglass sealers like Vertglas avoid this problem by filling in all the holes, pits and crevices in the gelcoat surface.<br /><br />did not see this before I posted, but I still do not buy it. I have buffed out boats with crazing (cracks) all over, and they held there shine. If you ask me, someone is trying to sell vertglass, which I have used twice with poor results not trying to flame you Ralph Spencer, I just disagree.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: oxidized gelcoat

boat doc <br /><br />That was just an article I happen to come across<br /><br />If you read the posts you would see that I was saying what you said. They can be restored by a pro with the right buffer and materials. Just like a pro did for my 79 Formula and that is what I was recommending he do. Here is the post again in case you missed it:<br /><br />

Just find a good local fiberglass autobody pro and pay him to come and buff the boat out for you. I did that with my 79 formula and it looked great and still does over a year later.<br />

 

[BF]

Re: oxidized gelcoat

I've had a bit of personal experience with this in the last couple weeks. I've got a '78 16' speed/ski boat that is metallic silver. Top was badly oxidized & dull (was dull gray color). I decided to do a quick 1 day refinish. Sanded top surface with palm sander and fine grit paper, wiped down, and then did several light coats of acrylic clear coat (3 cans from local automotive paint supply place). It turned out great (I'd give myself a 9/10). The only thing I would do differently is, sand more aggressively with medium grit, before using fine grit. There are a couple places where I can tell I sanded too lightly (eg. low spot in a recess on the deck), and they're a bit discoloured compared to most of it.<br /><br />The upshot is that I think the clear coat was just plain worn off my boat. I could get a shine on it with wax (for a while), but nothing like it is now.<br /><br />Last comment, the automotive paint place would've made up a couple spray balms of epoxy clear coat (resin & hardener), and that's suppossed to be mucho harder stuff and last better. But, once mixed it has to be used within a couple hours and I couldn't do that (boat is out of town). I figured if I decide to redo it and go for the perfect "10", maybe next time I'll try the good stuff. But the way it looks now, I'm in no rush to redo it.<br /><br />Anyway, that's my $.02.<br /><br />Brent

 

[boat doc]

Re: oxidized gelcoat

metalic is hard to do, and get a "factory finish" The flake used is actually a plastic flake with a foil like coating. usually if you sand to the flake, you ruin the flake, by taking off the shiny or reflective surface. In my opinion, gelcoate is always the way to go when doing resto, but epoxy is a great alternative, and less expensive.<br /><br />Ralph, like I said, not trying to rag on you.... sorry if you were offended, was not my intention.