Parts exchange between a 18hp 57 Rude & 18hp 64 Johnson?

[BloodStone]

Hello all Newbie here;
An individual over at tinboats (BassBoy) recommended your site & I've been silently observing the forums and was impressed by how many no nonsense, knowledgeable folks participate in these forums. Anywho onto my questions..
I just recently recieved a 18 hp 1957 Evinrude Fastwin manual start with pressurized fuel tanks (good shape) & a 1964 Johnson 18 hp with electric start & standard tanks (fair shape) What I want to know is, how many of the parts are interchangeable between the two? Specifically I'm talking, starter, gear shifter, flywheel, fuel system conversion taking from the 64 over to the 57, etc..? The Compression test (done by me with a $200.00 tester) was done with the aid of a power drill with socket on the top flywheel nut. The engines were both cold. I've yet to have both motors up & running really (Evinrude for 5-6 seconds dry run, nada for the Johnson-even when injecting gas directly into the cylinders). I've also used an ignition tester on both motors & they seem to have decent spark but it may require further detailed examination.
Results:
57 Evinrude
Top 110
Bottom 110

1964 Johnson
Top 95
Bottom 95
Final question, if both motors ran equally well, which would you keep & which one would you sell & briefly why?
Thanks

 

[F_R]

Re: Newbie needs info on parts exchange between a 18hp 57 Rude & 18hp 64 Johnson

Re: Newbie needs info on parts exchange between a 18hp 57 Rude & 18hp 64 Johnson

The recoil starters are similar but not totally interchangeable because there are slight differences in the casting at the rope outlet to accomodate the different hoods.

Gear shifter, again different. Hood issue again.

Flywheel, probably ok

Fuel pump and stuff, probably ok, unless there is an issue of the hood clearance. Some stuck out farther than others.

To sum up, the '64 is a result of evolution from the '56, similar but with a lot of differences.


Check the ignition. Those things are notorious for having cracked coils. They will never run like they should until you replace them if cracked. Sometimes they aren't cracked yet but look like they are covered with little beads of dried-up sweat. That isn't good either.
Which is preferable? A matter of taste. But the collector guys seem to like the '57 style over the newer ones with fiberglass hoods. They call them tupperware hoods. From a practical standpoint, one is about as good as the other.

 

[BloodStone]

Re: Newbie needs info on parts exchange between a 18hp 57 Rude & 18hp 64 Johnson

Re: Newbie needs info on parts exchange between a 18hp 57 Rude & 18hp 64 Johnson

The recoil starters are similar but not totally interchangeable because there are slight differences in the casting at the rope outlet to accomodate the different hoods.

Gear shifter, again different. Hood issue again.

Flywheel, probably ok

Fuel pump and stuff, probably ok, unless there is an issue of the hood clearance. Some stuck out farther than others.

To sum up, the '64 is a result of evolution from the '56, similar but with a lot of differences.


Check the ignition. Those things are notorious for having cracked coils. They will never run like they should until you replace them if cracked. Sometimes they aren't cracked yet but look like they are covered with little beads of dried-up sweat. That isn't good either.
Which is preferable? A matter of taste. But the collector guys seem to like the '57 style over the newer ones with fiberglass hoods. They call them tupperware hoods. From a practical standpoint, one is about as good as the other.

Thank you for the info, MUCH appreciated. What about the starters & the brackets though, are they interchangeable? Btw, there is no hood for the 64, well there is but it's off an Evinrude (fiberglass all white with black Evinrude lettering & nothing else-no cut out for pull starter either). Is there a site (besides here) that you can do a compare & contrast of the 2 motors?
Thanks

 

[F_R]

Re: Newbie needs info on parts exchange between a 18hp 57 Rude & 18hp 64 Johnson

Re: Newbie needs info on parts exchange between a 18hp 57 Rude & 18hp 64 Johnson

Oops, I thought you meant the recoil starter. As for the electric starter, I sort of think it will fit the '57 but am not 100% sure. The '57 has an air silencer, one screw of which goes into the starter bracket. And of course, there is the hood again. The '57 hood mount is bolted to the starter bracket. A guy would have to make a side-by-side comparison to see if it can be used.

Now, just for information, if you were trying to put it on a '57 Johnson, it wouldn't work. Hood mount for sure on that one.

 

[BloodStone]

Re: Newbie needs info on parts exchange between a 18hp 57 Rude & 18hp 64 Johnson

Re: Newbie needs info on parts exchange between a 18hp 57 Rude & 18hp 64 Johnson

Oops, I thought you meant the recoil starter. As for the electric starter, I sort of think it will fit the '57 but am not 100% sure. The '57 has an air silencer, one screw of which goes into the starter bracket. And of course, there is the hood again. The '57 hood mount is bolted to the starter bracket. A guy would have to make a side-by-side comparison to see if it can be used.

Now, just for information, if you were trying to put it on a '57 Johnson, it wouldn't work. Hood mount for sure on that one.

Thanks again sir. I just found a shifter handle for a Johnson (looks identical to the one on my 57 Evinrude) for $15.00. Haven't purchased it yet, instead I am taking the entire engine over to the guy's house & see how it matches up. Sure wish someone here knew for sure whether that electric starter & bracket off the 64 Johnson will work on the 57 Evinrude & also if the complete Johnson fuel system can be converted over to the Evinrude (do away with the pressurized tank crap with bulky metal tanks & go with a low profile plastic 6 gallon one). One last thing, I just checked the 2 coils over carefully & they look fine & so do the points (going to get 2 new sparkplugs & see how that works).

 

[hammerhandle]

Re: Parts exchange between a 18hp 57 Rude & 18hp 64 Johnson?

Another thing you might want to consider is the 64 johnson can run 50:1 and has a thermostat,,,the 57 i believe is 24:1 and doesnt have a thermostat. cheers!

 

[coolguy147]

Re: Newbie needs info on parts exchange between a 18hp 57 Rude & 18hp 64 Johnson

Re: Newbie needs info on parts exchange between a 18hp 57 Rude & 18hp 64 Johnson

(do away with the pressurized tank crap with bulky metal tanks & go with a low profile plastic 6 gallon one).

hey i still use my metal tank pressurized piece of crap. it will outlast ur fuel pump and gas tank tiwce as logn and still work. ur fuel pump is vibrating like a million time my drifram in the primer does only 7 time when i start the motor in the day. plastic would surely crack over time. i keep using mine and it will last a century.

Just a thought on the piece of crap metal tank

 

[BloodStone]

Re: Newbie needs info on parts exchange between a 18hp 57 Rude & 18hp 64 Johnson

Re: Newbie needs info on parts exchange between a 18hp 57 Rude & 18hp 64 Johnson

hey i still use my metal tank pressurized piece of crap. it will outlast ur fuel pump and gas tank tiwce as logn and still work. ur fuel pump is vibrating like a million time my drifram in the primer does only 7 time when i start the motor in the day. plastic would surely crack over time. i keep using mine and it will last a century. Just a thought on the piece of crap metal tank

No offense meant to your personal love of the bulky relics of a bygone era. I don't like mine because in a 14' shallow V-hull boat, they're a pain in the arse to try & modify a boat around (I.e. underneath decks with storage latches). Plus, I don't like the fact that they can & often do rust or the paint sometimes flakes off into the fuel & are clanky/noisy especially on the bottom of a metal boat. etc.. In regards to my plastic tank "cracking", you're right..IF I decide to bash it into alot of stuff or, perhaps punt it around the front yard like a football or better yet, let it sit with watery gas or condensation in it all winter long. Tell ya what, just so you know I mean no ill will, after I'm done with what I gotta do to the boat motors & all, you can have one of my metal monstrosities (works). I'm sure you'll give it a good home.

 

[samo_ott]

Re: Parts exchange between a 18hp 57 Rude & 18hp 64 Johnson?

I have many 18's but have never tried to swap the electric start. I think it will work but am not sure. It might need minor mods. But if you have both, try it!

If it was me, I would keep and run the '57 and sell the '64. Reason being is that I find fibreglass hooded engines sell for a lot more than a metal head and I have no probs running a metal head. They all work the same.... give or take...

 

[jbjennings]

Re: Parts exchange between a 18hp 57 Rude & 18hp 64 Johnson?

There's no site that you can compare/contrast those 2 motors that I know of.
F-R is one of the few folks in the world that could have told you if the parts are interchangeable. You could check out aomci.org's ask-a-member site but you'd better be careful about the "bulky relics of a bygone era" comments if you go there. Technically, a '57 evinrude 18hp outboard was one of the lightest, least bulky 18hp motors that was ever built. If you compare it to a modern 4-stroke 18 or even 9.9hp, you'll find the 4-stroke will weigh about twice as much and be FAR bulkier.
Anyway, adding a fuel pump like you suggest is very handy from my experience, and the corrosion resistance/quietness of a plastic tank is handy as well.

Which is the better motor? I'd take the one with the highest compression any day. 95psi on your '64 is borderline and I doubt it would idle/crank nearly as smoothly as your '57 if both are tuned/fixed right.

Fuel pump? I think the bypass cover off your '64 might fit the '57. It wouldn't take 5 min. to take it off and try it on the '57, anyway. Even if the '64 bypass cover won't fit, you can make your own and drill/tap it or even drill and tap the '57 bypass cover and put a 1/4 inch pipe thread nipple in it to connect a vacuum line to your '64 pump. Does your '64 pump work, BTW?

Electric starter bracket? I thought the '57 evinrude would have the starter on the port side of the motor, whereas the '64 had it on the starboard side????? In that case, they wouldn't interchange. But again, F-R would know if anyone would.

Which would I keep? the '57 fastwin by far. But I don't think you'll be able to make it electric start with your '64 starter bracket. It will crank in 2 pulls or less if you get the fastwin tuned right.

One more thing, the lower unit is just as important to me as the motor, since it usually goes bad before the powerhead. You should check to see which one is better. The lower unit of the '64 would probably fit on your '57------but only as a complete lower unit and driveshaft.

Just some thoughts,
JBJ

 

[BigB9000]

Re: Parts exchange between a 18hp 57 Rude & 18hp 64 Johnson?

The Compression test was done with the aid of a power drill with socket on the top flywheel nut.

For the life of me I really don't see any power drill turning a flywheel.

Impact, yeah, no problem, but at 2 RPM.

 

[F_R]

Re: Parts exchange between a 18hp 57 Rude & 18hp 64 Johnson?

I already said the starter bracket will/might work with a couple of possible exceptions. As I said, the silencer might be running with a screw missing, and there may be a problem with no hood mount. You just gotta look and see. Sorry, I'm not there to do the looking.

 

[tx1961whaler]

Re: Parts exchange between a 18hp 57 Rude & 18hp 64 Johnson?

For the life of me I really don't see any power drill turning a flywheel.

Impact, yeah, no problem, but at 2 RPM.

I use a 19.2 volt cordless drill to start my little motors (up to 6 HP) when I'm tuning them up. Works like a charm.

 

[BloodStone]

Re: Parts exchange between a 18hp 57 Rude & 18hp 64 Johnson?

For the life of me I really don't see any power drill turning a flywheel.

Impact, yeah, no problem, but at 2 RPM.

I used a 1/2 " electric Ryobi Hammer drill (NOT set on hammer natch!) & it turned both over like nothing.