Patriot Petition

[JGREGORY]

Sign a citizen petition on behalf of Lt. Col. Allen B. West,<br />U.S. Army, who was indicted last week on criminal assault charges<br />for the psychological intimidation tactic he used to acquire<br />vital intelligence from a captured enemy combatant in Iraq --<br />intelligence that saved the lives of American soldiers facing<br />imminent attack.<br /> <br />"[The enemy detainee] and his accomplices were a threat to our<br />soldiers and the method was not right, but why should I...be forced<br />into prison for protecting my men?," Col. West asks. Patriot<br />Petitions poses the same question: How can we expect our frontline<br />officers to fight wars the Bush administration calls "preemptive"<br />if they are not given the latitude to respond -- preemptively --<br />to the asymmetric threats of terrorist aggressors? Would the<br />deaths of American soldiers in the ambush Col. West thwarted at<br />Saba al Boor have constituted a more acceptable result for the<br />Army's judge advocate? Please sign the petition to exonerate<br />Col. West from this grossly misguided criminal prosecution.<br /> <br />(Please forward this invitation to friends, family members, and<br />fellow American Patriots. In order to force serious consideration<br />of this issue within the White House and Congress, we must first<br />collect as many petition signatures as possible.)<br /> <br />PatriotPetitions.US, the nation's leading public opinion advocate<br />for U.S. national security, sovereignty, and Constitutional<br />integrity, has released its newest campaign entreating the<br />President, Congress and Department of Defense to Exonerate<br />Lt. Col. Allen B. West from Criminal Prosecution. Please read<br />this brief description of the campaign and register your opinion<br />on this matter. Please let your voice be heard!<br /> <br />Please join fellow Patriots on the front lines in defense of our<br />liberty and national sovereignty.<br /> <br />Link to -- http://PatriotPetitions.US/colwest

 

[Specks n Reds]

Re: Patriot Petition

 

[JGREGORY]

Re: Patriot Petition

No arguement from me. Most of the times they are a fruitless endevor. But Considering the outrage that was shown on this site about the trouble Col. West was in I posted this as a PSA. I Have no opinion one way or the other. This issue is to hot to touch. I stay away from the other post on the same topic for the same reason. Granted he probably saveed lives BUT he also broke the law. <br /><br />Ok I do have an opinion. The ends do not justify the means. When we stoop to their level we are no better than they are. IMHO, We can't have it both ways We vilify the Iraqis for torture but expect a free ride if our people do the same thing. Maybe a losing battle but you do not make points when you are accused of using the same stlye of tactics that the people you conquered use.

 

[JB]

Re: Patriot Petition

I said my piece on this subject.<br /><br />If Lt. Col. West is found guilty of violating the law he should be punished.<br /><br />If representatives of America cannot behave according to our civilized standards, even if it makes the job more difficult, we have no right to demand it of others.

 

[KennyKenCan]

Re: Patriot Petition

Yeah JB but,<br /><br />What if the law is bogus?<br /><br />So, 2, 4, 15 American soldiers would have to DIE , instead of one Iraqi, having only the crap scared out of him?<br /><br />Sorry, I do not see the criminal activity here!<br /><br /> THIS IS WAR !<br /><br />It is still a very cruel activity that us human beings put ourselves in, when necessary.<br /><br />And now, at this momement in time, WAR IS NECESSARY ! <br /> <br />And that same Iraqi would have put a knife in the backs of anyone of those interegators, all he needed was a knife!<br /><br />This law is so lop-sided, it is pothetic!<br /><br />Jail time for a man who averted the deaths of American soldiers, freedom for the Iraqi who would gladly kill for no reason what-so-ever!<br /><br />What a sick world we live in!

 

[plywoody]

Re: Patriot Petition

Good for you, JB!<br /><br />Our bill of rights is not something to be practiced only when convenient. It is what this country is about, and what we are supposedly fighting for.<br /><br />Abondoning it seems pretty lame to me, no matter what the supposed gain.

 

[jimchere]

Re: Patriot Petition

Once more....I said this in another thread WITH NO RESPONSE. Have you ever read the Geneva Convention?<br />Their is a distinguished difference between the rights of a legitimiate POW and "guerilla" fighter.<br />Those who do not wear a uniform, do not distinguish themselves from the general population, and actively engage in combat against a uniformed armed force ARE NOT covered by the Geneva Convetion.<br />This man did what anyone of your would have done. Maybe not? Then you write the letters to the wives/fathers/mothers/daughters/sons/aunts..........................

 

[JB]

Re: Patriot Petition

I think what Plywoody and I are referring to is HUMAN rights.<br /><br />Uniform or not, de nada.

 

[jimchere]

Re: Patriot Petition

Humanity is no more than the lowest humanity of the lowest human.<br /><br />Every Commanding Officer of a unit with any fortitude submits the "letter" to those that died under his command. Many have done so and will continue to. It is the hallmark of professionalism in the business of armed conflict that Americans have done since the Civil War.<br />"Dear ***, I am sorry to report that your (sons/daughters/husbands/wives) died. They/he/she served admirably and died for our freedom. Though it could have beem prevented, and more of the enemies of freedom killed, I could not interrogate a non-uniformed non-military guerilla fighter in violation and not covered by the Geneva Conventions. To do so would have resulted in too much political criticism and belief that we are lowering ourselves to the enemy. I apologize for the fact that some very wise people agreed to the Geneva Conventions just before the First World War, and intentionally provided for some legal relief for above due to the sinful tactics of terrorism. Unfortunately, these lessons, and the reasons the law was written upon, have been forgotten. For that I offer the casket. It was our civil righteousness to sacrifice your sons/daughters/wives/husbands/ to do so.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Patriot Petition

hello<br /> Like many here I too signed three times and raised my right hand twice. I had a lot of fun. if my commanding officer on any of my commands had stooped so low as to imitate Pol-pot,hitler, saddam or any number of low lifes like col west appears to have done. I would hesitate to serve under them. but I dont have all the details. apearently some one wishes to investigate wrongdoing. I guess if it happened to your kids cause its a war on drugs it would be ok as well. I can see the headlines now. sherriff bubba dubya gets info from kids by popping some caps and kikkin some butts. but no worries we got 2 roaches and some killer rolling papers off the street. we also got 2 kids with a beer. another battle won.<br /> Good luck and keep posting

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: Patriot Petition

Just a question then plywoody, JB and rodbolt jgregory.<br /><br />Based on the same rights, laws or conventions.<br />Wouldn't the combatants held in Cuba deserve the same rights as POW's, or deserve due process?<br /><br />And since many there have been held for close to two years without these considerations, wouldn't this be a larger miscarriage of justice?<br /><br />After your response, I'll limit myself to just one other follow-up question.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Patriot Petition

Hello<br /> in a word. yes<br /> the inalienable human rights part is not selectivly enforceable. I know that some of those people are mean evil and nasty but still are human and should be judged in a swift and fair manner.if they are combatants and by a war on terror if they are terrorist they are combatants then they have to be accorded the rights of a POW. as long as they can be done in safty. I am sorry but the long hair and beards must go for safty of the captors as well as the captives.but can we keep them there cause a bro in law of a sisters cousin back in raghead land thinks they may be someone? nope try them and do whatever but unlawful detainment should cease. that is why we are a super power and they are 3rd world. and the Patriot act for all its feel good fuzzies is the biggest threat to our freedoms since J edgar Hoover.<br /> just my opinion. good luck and keep posting

 

[gaugeguy]

Re: Patriot Petition

It's really easy to sit back in your easy chair and say this man has committed a crime when there are Americans alive today in Iraq, that may have been killed, if this officer didn't coerce a little info from a slimebag. Tell me you wouldn't use a little excessive force to gain info from someone that was going to kill a member of your family, and I'll call you a liar. When you are in combat, that fellow American beside you is your brother, you would give your life for him, as he would for you. That officer is a Hero in my book, and I would follow him because I know he is gonna give his all for his men. Freedom isn't free, deal with the harsh reality. Are you telling me you wouldn't use any means available to gather info that would have prevented 9/11? Wake up and smell the coffee, the world is an ugly place, and pacifist babies are easy targets everywhere else but here, because of men like the guys who are giving their all to protect you.

 

[JB]

Re: Patriot Petition

I believe that the Geneva Convention specifically excludes civilians (not uniformed) from the definition of Prisoners Of War.<br /><br />That makes the guys in Gitmo captives, not POWs.<br /><br />Nevertheless, they are entitled to humane treatment and fair, even justice.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Patriot Petition

Hello<br /> hahaha I am far from a pacifist but over the years I have learned that the ends dont always justify the means. by you last post it would be ok for someone to bust in your door. pop a few caps by your wife/sdon/daughters head while they blindfolded and gagged you to bust a guy with some doobies down the street, yes the world is ugly. that is why we have laws and PROPER law enforcement. would I have done the same in the heated moment? I hope not. it would have been wiser to withdraw and look about. Information taken from a fenatic could be worse than no info at all. west already knew about an ambush so most any info coerced from a fanatic informant would be very suspect. would be time to isolate the villiage and then have a look. The man broike the law. would I have? probably. would they bust me? probably. that is why we spend thousands on training officers. so they can make the correct decision in the heat of battle. when we ran a security drill at little creeck most, including me went o prison. the drill was a person in a machenery space held a hostage with a piece of pipe. you freed the hostage . the person then came at you with a pipe and from there we had to react. most shot the person with our paintballs. the problem was the correct manuver should have been to exit the space and seal it. deadly force was not autherized in that case because there was other means. so the question is not was he justified to terrorize a citizen but did he breack the law and not follow his traing. yes I realize that armchair generals can look stupid at times but that is what sepoerates our armies from theirs. that is why they are 3rd world and we are a democracy.Just an opinion from a disabled vet now I gotta go to work while my boy sleeps in <br /> what a deal

 

[samagee]

Re: Patriot Petition

Excuse me, looking for drugs and fighting someone that WILL kill you are two different things. <br /><br />I have to admit though, I decided along time ago not to be a police officer. I decided because I would not have been able to control myself around scum like drug dealers.<br /><br />Getting back on subject.....War is hell, war is murder, war is trying to make sure the other side does not go home to their family. It is not about walking out onto a field and flexing muscle, to see who gets scared first and runs home with their tale between their legs. In this day and age you might even get jumped on by the other side doing that, if they are gay. Maybe thats what some of these crazy people want I guess. They rather the soldiers were out there blowing each other, instead of blowing each other up.<br /><br />It is really sad that a nation will make a HUGH celebration out of a Jessica Lynch, but will court martial someone who is taking proactive measures to make sure there isn't another Jessica Lynch.

 

[gaugeguy]

Re: Patriot Petition

Guess that's the great thing about the good ole USA-we can agree to disagree. I too, am a disabled vet, happy Veterans Day rodbolt.

 

[KennyKenCan]

Re: Patriot Petition

What a bunch of cry-baby, passivist librals!<br /><br />I seriously hope the next terrorist attack happens in your hometown, so you can have a taste of what terrorism is all about!<br /><br />You libral passivist's have written so many libral laws, that when fighting a war that is necessary, we must do so with our hands tied behind our backs!<br /><br />Don't bomb "inocent enemies", don't threaten enemy POW's, don't shoot that boy over there with the AK-47, he's only a boy, even though he will kill you !<br /><br />Just who do you people think you are?<br /><br />Obviously you were not in New York on September 11, 2001!<br /><br />Do you know what it feels like when a fully loaded aircraft impacts your building?<br /><br />I do, I was on the 72nd floor of Tower 1!<br /><br />Do you know the panic of personnally seeing a second aircraft approach and impact a second building?<br /><br />I do, I had just exited the first tower!<br /><br />Do you know the sound of human bodies impacting the ground, after falling 110 stories?<br /><br />I do, they fell right next to me!<br /><br />Do you know the sound of buildings collapsing?<br /><br />I do, I ran like I never ran before!<br /><br />Do you know the smell that permiated from the site for weeks?<br /><br />I do, I can still smell it!<br /><br />Did you carry injured people away from the World Trade Center?<br /><br />I did, lots of them!<br /><br />Did you carry away dead bodies that day?<br /><br />I did, lots of them too!<br /><br />I can care less about an enemy that wants to destroy ME !<br /><br />If it takes a little slapping around, or shots fired near his head, so be it, as long as it saves our soldiers lives!<br /><br />If it were you in the enemies hands, those slaps would be a rifle butt to your thick head, and those shots would not be near your head, they would be through your thick, single minded, passivist, libral head!<br /><br />And then you would expect sympathy from the rest of us!<br /><br />Yeah right!<br /><br />And by the way, there is no such thing as human rights in war.<br /><br />It is KILL OR BE KILLED . . . PERIOD .

 

[tylerin]

Re: Patriot Petition

KennyKenCan, I hope that shuts a few of them up

 

[gaugeguy]

Re: Patriot Petition

You da man Kenny!!