Patriot Petition

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
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Re: Patriot Petition

Alright, you loud mouth name caller.<br /><br />I'm no liberal. Nor am I a pacifist. Definitely not a wuss.<br /><br />Conservatism, even Libertarianism is the disciplined adherance to principles, even in moments of passion.<br /><br />That means obeying the law, even when your emotions are demanding that you break it. Many of us have looked the grim reaper in the eye. It is certainly a reason to be angry, but not a reason to turn your back on the principles that got you into that spot in the first place.<br /><br />It is for a court, not the media, to decide what LtCol West did, and whether it was unlawful.<br /><br />Calling the defense of the Bill Of Rights Liberal is an insult to Conservatism.
 

KennyKenCan

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Re: Patriot Petition

The Bill Of Rights applies to American citizens, NOT ENEMIES OF THE UNITED STATES !!!!<br /><br />I am sure that if you were on the front lines in Iraq, you would not be saying what you are saying.<br /><br />What you would be saying is that the libral passivists back home are tyeing my hands behind my back, and demanding I win this war WITHOUT FIRING BACK !<br /><br /> THATS THE PROBLEM !!<br /><br />If you can't see that, then you need to get your moral values straight, because if you think that your way of thinking is the moraly correct one, then ALOT OF U.S. SOLDIERS ARE GOING TO DIE, AND THEY HAVE IMORAL PEOPLE LIKE YOU TO BLAME !
 

oddjob

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Jun 19, 2002
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Re: Patriot Petition

The fact that I'm hearing about this tells me that Col. West failed in his mission. If he would have just shot the man in the knee and pointed at the other one. He could have saved some ammo and time. <br /><br />Petty Officer 2nd class Rodbolt, <br />why do you keep refering to your Vet status to make a point here? <br />Are you a "disabled Vet with a service connected disability" or just a "disabled Vet"?<br />Retired 20 yrs or did the disability force you to retire? <br /><br />In other words, what battle were you wounded in?<br /><br />Dont normaly choose to be so curious, but I feel its pertinent since you've mentioned it a few times now here and in other posts.<br /><br /> Rodbolt<br />
when bubba dubya realized he had been misled he should have anted up and fired the whole lot of advisors and CIA directors. but instead he claimeed the war is over and we are just mopping up. so far to many soldiers have paid the price.bad thing really is they and their families get shafted out of thousands of dollars because bubba dubya (one cut above a draft dodger himself) decided to spin it as the combat was over. now anyone dying is not a combat related death or disability.aint no WMD's and the 9-11 thing had nothing to do with Iraq. Iraq was a scapegoat to draw attention fom our good buddies the saudies.bush knew it. Tony Blair Knew it. the french ands the germans knew it. only people that dont get it is the mass public but they are catching on. especially now that the great pumpkin did not rise from the pumpkin patch and reveal any WMD's. <br />so say your piece that is why I am disabled and others are just not here so everyone can say their piece. <br />--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br />
 

JB

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Re: Patriot Petition

Ken.<br /><br />I have been in places as dangerous as the front lines in Iraq, unarmed. <br /><br />I have had a boy, a child in civilian clothes, try to kill me. Only blind luck spared me and killed him. :( That moderates one's outlook.<br /><br />Don't lecture the Ancient Mariner on war and human ethics. I was not born yesterday, nor have I spent my life in secure shelter.
 

KennyKenCan

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Aug 26, 2002
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Re: Patriot Petition

You are not alone then JB, because I spent 6 months on the DMZ in Korea, and I was in Iran working on F-14's, back in '79, protecting American citizens from the Iranians, when the crap hit the fan there!<br /><br />Getting shot at, and being told not to shoot back by my commanding officers, because they didn't want to violate the Geneva Convention, almost got me killed!<br /><br />Had our military not had its hands tied behind their backs by the passivist librals who rewrote the rules of engagement, to fit their passivist libral thinking after WWII, we would not be having this discussion today!<br /><br />So don't lecture me, as I too, was not born yesterday!!
 

JGREGORY

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Jun 1, 2003
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Re: Patriot Petition

Jeese, I never meant to cause a war here but some things have been said that cannot be allowed to go without rebuttal.<br /><br />First let me state I have never served. My father was drafted during Vietnam, and my Grand Father was a master welder during WWII. My other Grandfather was a member of the Big Red One during WWII. I enlisted in the Navy but was rejected because of bad knees. I will not offer any further explaintion. I Respect the heritage of our Armed forces and Salute Each and Every veteran this Veterans Day, and every other day. My love for this country is paramount, And any other person who says otherwise is picking a fight. My respect for Veterans and this country have driven my love of history. <br /><br /> BUT and maybe its me, JB, Rod, And ( gag) Plywoody that separate the emotion from the decision. Anybody remember the lessons from the Trial of the Malmede attrocities. We used coersion, intimidation, and other underhanded means in obtaining confessions, and Testimony from the German POWs. And as a result most of the sentences were reduced or paroled. <br /><br />Now The but is they are not POW's. Fine, I agree with you. They are not POW's But are they not Human. Some might say they are animals and deserve to be treated as such. But don't we all give up a little bit of our humanity when members of our Military, Who act on our behalf, become as bad as those we demonize, kill, and hate. <br /><br /> Yes I hate them, They are no better than the crap from the camels they ride. I have and Uncle that served in the 101st during veitnam, I remember a story he told me of how one of his men went to a *****'s house for some "boom boom". Well next thing he new this Sgt is running out screaming with blood all over his groin area. We the "Lady of the Evening" had Razor blades taped to the inside of here thighs. She never survived the night, But that insident(sp?) Still haunts him to this day. He was the one that killed her with his combat knife. Can we, SHOULD WE , ask our people on the front line to expose themselves to that emotional trauma. <br /><br />Kenny, Listen I feel for you, I was not as close as you where, But I was there. As a Firefighter I cried when I here all those Pal's (personal alert locators)going off. And I'm as angry as the rest of you. I personnaly would have rather seen him dead than alive then we would not be having this discussion. <br /><br />We are in a country has the conquer, If we do not behave in accordance with Our laws no matter who the RAGHEAD, DI*KHEAD is. We will find ourselves not just fighting the minority of motivated Allah greaters. But will be fighting every Muslim and citizen of that region. I hope we are there for the long haul, That some lilly livered politicion does not get a case of spinelessness and pull out the troops before the job is done. We need to follow our rules and some of their customs if we really want to have a long lasting and Profitable relationship with that area of the world.<br /><br />He he it post before I was done...(edit to follow)<br /><br /> OTHERWISE , We are going to be sending our youth over there for years to come to Stain the sand red, trying to solve every little flare up that happens over there. Because we did not behave in accordance with our values, and started stamping on the "rights" of those people.
 

mellowyellow

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Jun 8, 2002
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Re: Patriot Petition

what's the point of having laws if you don't have<br />to follow them? while his behavior under the gun<br />is understandable, it is against the laws of<br />engagement that all military personnel have sworn<br />to uphold.<br />Lt. Col. Allen B. West broke the law and must pay<br />the consequenses plain and simple. has nothing to<br />do with being a pacifist or not IMO. he knew what<br />he was doing was breaking the rules as sure as I'm<br />writing this post.<br />perhaps if I knew I could save lives myself by<br />breaking the rules, I may have done the same.<br />but i would do it knowing there was a price to pay <br />and I would take my sentance like a man.<br />peace,<br />M.Y.
 

KennyKenCan

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Re: Patriot Petition

Hey mellow,<br /><br />I don't think that you would have that opinion if it was your son or daughter who would have been on the recieving end of the ambush that was averted by Lt. Col. Allen B. West!
 

mellowyellow

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Re: Patriot Petition

Ken, not saying I wouldn't have done so myself.<br />but I would have done so knowing the consequenses<br />and would take the punishment like a man.<br />disagreeing with a law doesn't give me the right <br />to break it...
 

Skinnywater

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Mar 7, 2002
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Re: Patriot Petition

I can see both sides of this and agree with both even.<br /><br />The only problem I have is, it's the same administration that will discredit the Col. West, yet will deny due process to the Guantanamo scum.<br />I'm always uncomfortable with mixed messages. :rolleyes:
 

rodbolt

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Sep 1, 2003
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Re: Patriot Petition

hello<br /> oddjob. I have a service connected not a combat related disability. yes I was medically retired as I was found not fit for further service. its an auto immune problem that is destroying my bones and connective tissues. the doctors seem to think it was a side effect of some vaccine or chemical exposure but cant or wont say what. they pay me about 400 a month and I have a green card so life is good. the reason why I refer to the disability is after 6 years I got set aside. I served honerably as did many others. but people sometimes like to say well you were not there or you dont understand but I do <br />I read a lot of posts about nuke their *** and take our gas and while it sounds catchy it is sickening. I spent years traning to set fires to russian ships only to find the average pesky rooskie is like the average iraqi or irainian or saud or afgahny , they just wish to feed the kids and take care of the home and the wife. I have since met many fine russians that served in the russian navy about the time I was in. we laugh and knock back a few and wonder if we could have sunk one another. it was not a people that attacked us but a handful of fanatics. and not even Iraqi fanatics at that. now maybe the saudi's will get a taste. our foriegn policy in the middle east has been so muddled that no one respects us anymore.its almost as bad as Clinton in Mogudishu. I dont like being called a liberal pansy but if it makes anyone feel better I guess you can. its mind over matter. if I dont mind they dont matter<br /> good luck god bless and keep posting
 

JGREGORY

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Jun 1, 2003
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Re: Patriot Petition

This goes in the agree all the way around. <br /><br />Kenny if my child was scheduled to be on that patrol that would have been ambushed I would be thanking Col. West. That still does not make it right.<br /><br />MY I wish I could have stated what you did in so few words. Right on man.<br /><br />Skinny, Amen bro. The whole reason why the administration is using G'tmo is to keep this out of the american justice system. I have a small problem with that only if it is being done to deny due process. <br /><br /> :) :) :) :) :)
 

oddjob

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Jun 19, 2002
Messages
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Re: Patriot Petition

Heres an opinion form another VET!<br /> <br /><br />--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br /> Worldnetdaily.com<br />--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br />Fire the perfumed princes now<br /><br />--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br />Posted: November 11, 2003<br />1:00 a.m. Eastern<br /><br />© 2003 David H. Hackworth <br /><br />U.S. Army conventional brass, in their infinite wisdom, are about to throw the book at a good soldier for doing what savvy combat leaders have done since before the invention of gunpowder: deep-six the regs to protect the troops and win fights. <br /><br />According to a 4th Infantry Division staff weenie, battalion skipper Lt. Col. Allen B. West violated the Rules of Interrogation – designed by a platoon of legal beagles far removed from the Iraqi killing fields of the Sunni Triangle, where West and his soldiers have been slugging it out since Saddam Hussein disappeared. <br /><br />West's sin was firing two pistol shots into the air and ground while questioning an Iraqi police officer who was aiding local terrorists and putting West's soldiers in their cross hairs on a regular basis. <br /><br />In my outfit, West would have gotten a pat on the back and been told to press on. But even though the double-crossing turncoat spilled his guts – enabling West's unit to ambush the ambushers – West is looking at serious slammer-time if found guilty by court-martial. <br /><br />From what I've discovered, this street-smart leader used the right tactics and techniques, while his commander, Maj. Gen. Raymond Odierno, played Political Correctness – a popular sport with our star-wearers and a major reason why the guerrillas are scoring so successfully in Iraq. <br /><br />After six months of light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel propaganda from the Bush administration reinforced by sycophants like Odierno, I'm convinced few generals on the ground in Iraq understand either the nature of insurgency warfare in general or their specific terrorist enemy. <br /><br />Which isn't exactly breaking news. We've lost campaign after campaign because most of our brass, from George Custer of Little Bighorn to Thomas Montgomery of "Black Hawk Down" in Somalia, never bothered to understand the nature of guerrilla warfare. <br /><br />Sure, the U.S. military brilliantly won the tactical war in Iraq with "shock and awe," but no amount of spin can shift the reality that it has been losing the early innings of the occupation phase. The generals so eager to court-martial colonels for doing their jobs should be court-martialed themselves for not doing their duty and confronting SecDef Donald Rumsfeld before we invaded Iraq. Had they, we wouldn't be dealing with the aftermath of an inept war plan that provided neither enough troops nor sufficient command guidance to prevent the looting and violence that fueled the ever-expanding guerrilla conflict, a conflict that Col. West and other heroes have been stuck in since Commander in Chief Bush blithely declared the end of major combat in Iraq last May. <br /><br />Last April, the only ministry that our forces protected was the Oil Ministry. The rest of the ministries and infrastructure were sacked while our troops looked the other way, and the Iraqi people watched the nuts and bolts of their future Iraqi government being hauled away in hijacked trucks. <br /><br />Because there was no coherent strategy in the early weeks of the occupation, our top brass responded to events rather than taking charge. Reaction rather than action allowed the insurgents to gain the initiative right from the get-go. And they're still at it, brazenly displaying the same bold MO as they continue inflicting carefully planned pain on our increasingly weary combat forces. <br /><br />The generals should also be brought up for not fighting the dumb White House decision to disband the Iraqi army. Instead of integrating that 450,000-man force into the stabilization process – and using it for reconstruction and certain security ops, which would have helped our badly stretched troops gain control over the looters and get the country up and running – we made it our enemy. Thousands of trained and armed Iraqi soldiers couldn't make tracks fast enough to join the insurgent movement. <br /><br />The conventional generals like Odierno should be replaced by mainly Special Forces leaders, both from the active and retired ranks, who comprehend the war at hand. Leaders who'd drop the silly charges against Col. West in a heartbeat so he could get on with winning his piece of this ugly war. <br /><br />As for the Perfumed Princes, send them home from both Iraq and Afghanistan – another guerrilla war we're losing – and let them play Political Correctness, or perhaps the emerging Blame Game, with the chicken hawks who got us in this mess in the first place.<br /><br />--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br /><br />Col. David H. Hackworth, author of his new best-selling "Steel My Soldiers' Hearts," "Price of Honor" and "About Face," has seen duty or reported as a sailor, soldier and military correspondent in nearly a dozen wars and conflicts – from the end of World War II to the recent fights against international terrorism.
 
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