Pemium vs. Ethanol 87

[Briwil]

Here in Ontario Our regular 87 Octane fuel uses 10% Ethanol. I purchased a 1989 Mercury 25 hp 2 stroke outboard this past spring and used it sparingly throughout the summer on my 14 ft fishing boat. I used regular 87 octane with ethanol with the appropriate 50:1 oil mix assuming that's all I needed to use according to the Mercury website. However, when I purchased a new lawnmower last spring and used the same 87 octane grade in it during the summer, I experienced carb problems and had a warranty claim on my hands. The small engine company handling the claim stressed that premium fuel should only be used because it has no ethanol in it and said that that same thing applies to any small engine including outboards because the ethanol can very quickly ruin carb jets etc. I would be interested to here other people's opinions on this. I look forward to your thoughts.

 

[GA_Boater]

Re: Pemium vs. Ethanol 87

What does the owner's manual say about fuel? I don't know for sure about your mower, but I doubt it requires premium gas. If what he says was true about ruining small engine carbs, then grass would be higher than the house because not too many mowers would be running. Is the repair company denying the claim?

 

[merc850]

Re: Pemium vs. Ethanol 87

Sounds like B.S. to me - I run a 1975 Merc 850 on reg. gas and it (ethanol) hasn't done anything much less destroying the jets, what people say it will do is destroy rubber hoses and plastics. I have two lawn mowers that sit a long time with fuel in them and no damage yet.
You should get the owner's manual and verify the octane requirements, 2 cycle engines don't need hi-octane fuel like a Hemi engine from the 60's.

 

[wired247]

Re: Pemium vs. Ethanol 87

Change the hoses every few years and you'll be fine

 

[matt167]

Re: Pemium vs. Ethanol 87

Lawnmower companies use it as a crutch for warranty claims.. The engines can take the ethanol but it does not stay fresh as long as non ethanol. The small 2 and 4 stroke trimmer/ chainsaw type engines should run non E because the plastic fuel lines that they run are not Ethanol rated. Stihl and Echo both require non E to be used to maintain the warranty because of that.

Ethanol fuels have been around since the 70's so it is nothing new

 

[Barnacle_Bill]

Re: Pemium vs. Ethanol 87

Where in the world is some of this info coming from? Ethanol is in all grades of gas in this area and its been that way for a long time now. I don't know about Echo but you can use fuel that does not exceed 10% ethanol in all Stihl motors. Gasoline Guidelines for STIHL Outdoor Power Equipment | STIHL USA Mobile

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Pemium vs. Ethanol 87

I have a very long response to threads like this and I get real tired of hearing mechanics blame E10 for every engine ill. Rather than post it again I'll just suggest getting a new mechanic.

 

[GA_Boater]

Re: Pemium vs. Ethanol 87

Where in the world is some of this info coming from? Ethanol is in all grades of gas in this area and its been that way for a long time now. I don't know about Echo but you can use fuel that does not exceed 10% ethanol in all Stihl motors. Gasoline Guidelines for STIHL Outdoor Power Equipment | STIHL USA Mobile

Darn good question, bhile. Even Echo says E10 is OK. They do stipulate for warranty 89 octane, which I think is a CYA on their part. Same fuel requirement as Stihl. Bottom of page 15 - http://www.echo-usa.com/getattachment/91de015a-c958-430b-8393-bf69b4411437/GT225es111226_032213.pdf

Hey Briwil - We got off track on the yard equipment stuff. Merc allows up to 10% ethanol and 87 octane. A snippet from Ethanol Fuels FAQs | Storage & Maintenance Outboards FAQs | Mercury Marine

Can ethanol-blended fuels affect the performance of traditional carbureted two-stroke outboards?

Two-stroke outboards should experience little or no decrease in performance due to gasoline fuels containing up to 10-percent ethanol when operated according to Mercury's standard recommendations. When gasoline with ethanol is used for the first time after a fuel changeover from MTBE, the tank must be completely free of water prior to introduction of gasoline with ethanol. Otherwise, phase separation could occur that could cause filter plugging or damage to the engine. (It is probably better for a boat owner to fill the fuel tanks with ethanol fuel for the first time when the tank is low on fuel, but that is not critical. There should be no difficulties if the tank is clean and free from water. If the tank is not free from water, a partial load of fuel will more easily phase separate because with less ethanol in place it takes less water to cause phase separation. The important thing for boaters to concern themselves with is the presence of water in their tanks.)
If an engine is a 1990 or older model, frequent inspections of all fuel-system components are advised to identify any signs of leakage, softening, hardening, swelling or corrosion. If any sign of leakage or deterioration is observed, replacement of the affected components is required before further operation.

 

[alfa]

Re: Pemium vs. Ethanol 87

Octane that differentiates the premium from regular gas has nothing to do with EtOH content it it. You can have no EtOH 87 as well as no EtOH 93. Out here in USofA we **** on weedwackers and mowers and they still burn - I get my nasty gas left over from boats and bike and burn it all while using the garden tools and the snowblower. Those small 2 strokes are pretty stout - just don't leave any gas in for along time.
To your answer - find out what your motor requires as far as octane and than get that at the pump (it will have ethanol), add some seafoam to it and hit the water like you stole it.

 

[tazrig]

Re: Pemium vs. Ethanol 87

Some where Don S. is watching this thread and laughing his *** off! :lol:

 

[Texasmark]

Re: Pemium vs. Ethanol 87

My OEM engine service manual published in Dec. '97 states that the engines covered in the manual ( 3-4 cyl 75-125 hp) are designed to run on 87 octane gasoline with a max of E10. Says nothing about PM as a result of fuel usage.

Mark

 

[bgc]

Re: Pemium vs. Ethanol 87

"Those small 2 strokes are pretty stout"
…I run a Mercury 2 cycle, if I sneeze wrong the damn thing quits…..

 

[Fun Times]

Re: Pemium vs. Ethanol 87

Some where Don S. is watching this thread and laughing his *** off! :lol:

Don is also saying that this type of conversation should belong in Non-Repair Outboard Discussions. Discussions not involving troubles or repair.:angel:

 

[Sea Rider]

Re: Pemium vs. Ethanol 87

E fuels doesn't ruin jet carbs in regular or constant use, leaving fuel inside carb for extended periods of time is another story. The only down issue that have personally noticed with E and non E fuels is that E fuels balloons, warps thin diaphragms much faster than non E fuels. The difference in physical shape is abismal, so be aware to have carb's thin rubber parts handy, including rubber o'rings found in carb's fuel filters that eventually will be stretched out.

Happy Boating

 

[Briwil]

Re: Pemium vs. Ethanol 87

E fuels doesn't ruin jet carbs in regular or constant use, leaving fuel inside carb for extended periods of time is another story. The only down issue that have personally noticed with E and non E fuels is that E fuels balloons, warps thin diaphragms much faster than non E fuels. The difference in physical shape is abismal, so be aware to have carb's thin rubber parts handy.-

Happy Boating

Thanks to everyone who has contributed their opinion to this thread. I feel better now about what to use. The manufacturer of my lawnmower engine has reluctantly agreed to replace the carb because that particular engine had a recall for premature carb failure. So it wasn't really the ethanol that caused the problem although the repair shop was trying to make me believe that. There still seems to be split feelings around my area about using regular vs. premium fuel in all small engines. It's mostly the older mechanics that stress that they have always used premium and that's the only way to go. However, most of the younger ones say just follow your owners manual. Thanks again for your advice.

 

[izoomie]

Re: Pemium vs. Ethanol 87

Where in the world is some of this info coming from?

My buddy works for Shell and in Ontario he says there is no ethanol in the mid grade or premium fuels. Only regular. He uses mid grade in all his small engines.

I don't I only use regular and have never had a problem. I have a stilh week eater and a 25 year old craftsman lawnmower.

 

[limitout]

Re: Pemium vs. Ethanol 87

The small engine company handling the claim stressed that premium fuel should only be used because it has no ethanol in it and said that that same thing applies to any small engine including outboards because the ethanol can very quickly ruin carb jets etc.

that is more then pure BS, its a flat out bold faced irresponsible lie.

if they really believe that then they are stupid and incompetent.

I think they simply wanted to talk you into voiding your warranty so they didn't have to give you any warranty from them to cover the repairs they did to it.

ethynol has nothing to do with being regular or premium, premium just has extra octane added to it and you can make your own premium by adding octane boost to your gas, weekend drag racers do it all the time.

regular AND premium both have ethynol in them so the only thing premium does is cost more and makes the engine run hotter and get overheated causing excessive wear and possible engine damage.

most small engines (lawn mowers) and all outboard manufacturers warn you that you will void your warranty if you run premium gas in them because of this. (not sure if anything changed about the latest new motors this year)

only run non ethynol regular gas in your boat

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: Pemium vs. Ethanol 87

ooooh.....another ethanol fuel thread....opcorn::deadhorse:

besides the he said / she said on ethanol (I have worked both in the Marine field and the Small engine field) and heave stated my views and observations many many times.

food as fuel - bad morally and ethically

The only one that benefits from ethanol in fuel are the lobbyists and politicians that have their hand in the cookie er corn jar

end rant and soap box.

going back to the OP's issue. E10 is the max that any small air-cooled engine can handle. above that, they start to overheat, etc. Warranty is denied if run on E15 and E20 by all small engine manufacturers. Most outdoor power equipment manufacturers test with AV gas due to its high flash point, and that it will not gum up the fuel system for the consumer.

regarding your outboard - the oil in 2 cycle fuel adds a long-strand carbon chain that is missing in ethanol, the long-strand carbon backbone within the fuel allows it to last longer.

what that means to you. use only the amount of fuel you can use within a 30 day window for your lawn mower. dump the remainder in your car, and refresh your jerry cans.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Pemium vs. Ethanol 87

and makes the engine run hotter and get overheated causing excessive wear and possible engine damage.

Actually, its the opposite. Premium actually runs cooler because of the higher octane. Higher octane fuels are just harder to ignite.

 

[WIMUSKY]

Re: Pemium vs. Ethanol 87

Actually, its the opposite. Premium actually runs cooler because of the higher octane. Higher octane fuels are just harder to ignite.

True dat. As far as lawn mowers, I have one that has 900hrs on it and has run nothing but 87 with 10%. Haven't touched the carb. It's a 2005.

OB, I just run premium w/o ethanol. Mainly because it can sit for a month, at least, in summer and I want to maintain the octane level as best as possible. It is my understanding that octane levels can drop while sitting. How long this process takes and at what rate the octane level drops, who knows.....