Pertronix converted, now will not start

[Rod Holder]

Hi,<br />I just installed a Pertronix 2 ignition along with Blaster 2 coil and Pertronix wires on my 1977 470 Merc. Ran fine with the points. I checked for at least 12 volts on the red wire between unit and coil and all the basic stuff like plug wire orientation and other associated wire connections.<br /><br />While cranking, it will act as if it will fire off, but all it will do is belch out a carb backfire (pretty blue color with a not so pretty smell). It is acting like it is 180 degrees off, but there is no other way it could be installed.<br /><br />Fishing opens on 2-1-05. I could switch back to the points but it would be great to figure out what the heck is going on.<br /><br />Any ideas appreciated.

 

[JasonB]

Re: Pertronix converted, now will not start

Double check the timing. When I did my Pertronix, I had a similar problem and it was timing. The backfire description sounds eerily familiar...<br /><br />I also had problems with the 12v lead I had. The engine might fire off intermittently, but would never run right until I pulled a new wire. the old one always showed 12v, but must have had a short.

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: Pertronix converted, now will not start

bring number 1 up on the compression stroke and set the timing mark on the balancer.rotor should be pionting at number 1 plug wire in the cap.adjust dist, or reset the plug wires to match 1-3-4-2

 

[Rod Holder]

Re: Pertronix converted, now will not start

Thanks Jason,<br />Do you remember if you had to advance or retard ? I have turned the distributor to the max. either way (you know, until wires start to bind and such)<br /><br />The rotor still points to #1 on the at TDC after the conversion so I gotta be real close.<br /><br />To test the red wire feed, can I just run a wire from battery + directly to it ?<br /><br />Thanks. RH

 

[Rod Holder]

Re: Pertronix converted, now will not start

Hey BT,<br />The distributor orientation was not disturbed and I double checked the plug wire secuence (as I did replace them, one at a time of course)<br /><br />I did just check voltage (with the key on) between + coil terminal and ground and between - coil terminal and ground. Both were 12.3 volts. I'm going to do the same test on my truck becuase I can't remember if the - side should show volts like that.<br /><br />RH

 

[Don S]

Re: Pertronix converted, now will not start

The pickup is timed differently than the points, this always happens with the Volvo 4 cylinder engines, give Pertronix a call,they will explain how you go about finding the proper timing.<br />Did you read the instructions? It's usually explained there.

 

[newport dave]

Re: Pertronix converted, now will not start

How are you checking the voltage - just with the key on?<br /><br />I had a problem with a Pertronix module recently and this is the procedure they gave me to check for enough voltage at positive side of the coil:<br /><br />1)Leave everthing hooked up normally<br />2)Ground negitive side of coil with jumper wire<br />3)crank engine while checking voltage at positive side of coil - minimum voltage is 8 volts<br /><br />Is there a ballast resistor or resistor wire in the circuit? You may need to remove it, depending on the what type of coil your using.<br /><br />Dave

 

[Rod Holder]

Re: Pertronix converted, now will not start

The "instructions" only explained how to install. It said that after you start the engine, adjust the timing. The troubleshoot section did not mention a timing re-set procedure.<br />I'll try the test Dave suggested and give Pertronix a call also. I checked their site and it just had the same info as the paperwork that came with it. <br />I heard these units were a slam dunk, but as always, the only true slam dunk is an air filter.<br /><br />Thanks again for all the ideas......RH

 

[trog100]

Re: Pertronix converted, now will not start

1)Leave everthing hooked up normally<br /><br />2)Ground negitive side of coil with jumper wire<br /><br />3)crank engine while checking voltage at positive side of coil - minimum voltage is 8 volts<br /><br />####<br /><br />No.2 would be directly shorting out the coil useing the primary circuit as the load.. similar to having your ignition switched on with points closed if u still had them.. quite a hefty load more than the wiring would get during normal running use..<br /><br />N0.3 quite low at 8 volts obviously the unit is very voltage tolerant.. u would get 8 volts even with resistor wires that perhaps should be removed still in circuit.. if everything else is correct the engine should fire up and run..<br /><br />not 100% sure of exact figures here.. but i think that with coils that need resistor wires in circuit the resistance across the two coil terminals should be about 1 to 1.5 ohms with those that do not need resistor wires in circuit the resistance should be about twice as much about 3 ohms..<br /><br />the resistor wire itself should have a resistance of about 1.5 to 2 ohms.. i am quoting from memory her so please dont any bugger throw a manual at me if my figures are a nats wotsit out.. he he<br /><br />the main gist of what i am saying here is that even if u have a resistor wire in circuit that shouldnt be there.. the engine should at least fire properly while cranking (resistor wire out of circuit) and probably still run okay (8 volts minimum requirments) after u let the key go..<br /><br />the easiest way to by get the full voltage (bypass the resistor wire) to the coil is to take a feed from the positive cable that goes to the electric choke.. just run this to the positive side of the coil..<br /><br />measuring the resistance across the two coil terminals is how to find out whether u need a resistor in curcuit or whether u dont.. its all down to the coil..<br /><br />trog100

 

[imported_Mike_M2]

Re: Pertronix converted, now will not start

I have done a Pertronics on a 470, pretty basic. I did need to bypass the resistor inline. What i did was grab the ignition wire near the main wire harness plug at the rear of the motor. This is where the engine plugs into the boat. Run a wire from there to the coil to bypass. The reason for the resistor is to reduce spark at the points, which don't exist anymore. Do like Trog said and temporarily bypass by running a wire from the battery positive to the coil postive and give it a whirl...

 

[Volvophile]

Re: Pertronix converted, now will not start

Heres some stuff I remember when replacing the points with the pertronix is my old 4Cyl Volvo.<br /><br />The timing will be different than if the points are there, I think the firing point was advanced a little.<br /><br />Dont connect the red +12v wire to the +12 on your coil, they dont like that.<br /><br />if you have the ignition on, you can rotate the distrubutor back & forth and hear a distinct "click" when it fires. (remove the wire from the plug first to prevent the engine from starting while your leaned over it. Thats kind of emberrasing)

 

[Rod Holder]

Re: Pertronix converted, now will not start

PROBLEM SOLVED !!!<br /><br />Once again I get great advise from you guys !!!<br /><br />It was the 12 volt feed at the coil + post (where the red wire from the unit connects). I ran a jumper from the electric choke to the red wire as suggested (at the coil + post) and it fired right up. The timing was almost spot on when checked at a warmed up idle speed. <br /><br />Right off the bat, I could tell that this system burned much better and I had opened up the plug gap from .035 to .040. With the points, until warmed up, the exhaust was quite rich.<br /><br />Thanks again for the advise......RH

 

[trog100]

Re: Pertronix converted, now will not start

opening up the plug gap a little is the only way to get a real benefit from a more powerfull spark..<br /><br />basically the voltage builds up in the secondary winding in the coil until it has enough potential behind it to jump the plug gap.. the potential needed to jump the gap is governed by the gap.. keep the same gap and u get the same spark.. open it up a little and u get a better spark cos the voltage has to build up more before it can jump the gap and fire the plug..<br /><br />if points can manage a 35 thou gap its logical to assume the more efficient transistorized system will manage forty..<br /><br />trog100<br /><br />ps.. one other thing.. if u transistorize your points system and still keep the original coil u still need that resistor wire in circuit.. this really isnt about burning up points.. its about burning up coils and your new transistorized system if too much current gets pushed thru it..<br /><br />a 1 to 1.5 ohm coil needs a resistor wire.. a 3 ohm coil dosnt.. i assume the blaster 11 coil is a 3 ohm jobby thow i dont for sure know..<br /><br />trog100