PL and MY new transom

[flipbro]

Ha guys new to the site Have been working on a complete rebuild on a 1984 wellcraft elite BR with a merc 260. This site seems to have many noligable guys so my question is why cant i pl my transom to the hull will this not hold? What is the real problem with this method ? I realize most guys use a fiberglass putty (PB) Im just curius as to why not pl and who has used it with succses?

 

[matt167]

Re: PL and MY new transom

I think you could PL the transom to the fiberglass to bond it in place, but you will still need to tab the transom to the hull to keep it solid, so you can't get out of using fiberglass

 

[DeepBlue2010]

Re: PL and MY new transom

Flip, I hope you don't mind but I have very similar question I was about to post in a seperate thread but I think we both can benifit from the answer. Why not 5200? I understand the need for tabbing at the end. I am just talking about the glue material.

 

[jb93]

Re: PL and MY new transom

Flip, I hope you don't mind but I have very similar question I was about to post in a seperate thread but I think we both can benifit from the answer. Why not 5200? I understand the need for tabbing at the end. I am just talking about the glue material.

Don't these products need air to cure? If so, I would think the time to cure would be much longer than stated on product and also possibility of undercure in the center of the transom. Because your transom is not going to be perfectly flat you would really have to put these products on thick - adding to the curing question/concern I would personally have. Also, neither have any structural filler like what is in homemade PB (cabosil and milled glass added for strength). Homemade PB (fiberglass filler) is a proven solution and not really any harder to use than PL or 5200. Certainly cheaper than 5200, as that product is pricey. I think the only question you need to decide is whether or not a structural bond should be epoxy or polyester resin based. Epoxy is stronger and less brittle, but most boats were/are built with polyester - so the concensus is that polyester is good enough if you properly grind and clean (acetone) the hull where you plan to bond using polyester. Epoxy is better and perhaps gives you some "insurance", but not required. I personally wouldn't use 5200 anywhere other than as a sealant for mounting holes in the boat floor or holes in your transom (motor mounts, drain tubes, etc). I believe a few folks around here have used PL to bond their transom, but that is the minority. I'd go with a quality polyester or epoxy based PB mix and know that you are good. US Composites is one of the more respected and economical suppliers for these products. You'll spend a small fortune if you buy your fiberglass supplies at a walk in retailer.

 

[flipbro]

Re: PL and MY new transom

Don't these products need air to cure? If so, I would think the time to cure would be much longer than stated on product and also possibility of undercure in the center of the transom. Because your transom is not going to be perfectly flat you would really have to put these products on thick - adding to the curing question/concern I would personally have. Also, neither have any structural filler like what is in homemade PB (cabosil and milled glass added for strength). Homemade PB (fiberglass filler) is a proven solution and not really any harder to use than PL or 5200. Certainly cheaper than 5200, as that product is pricey. I think the only question you need to decide is whether or not a structural bond should be epoxy or polyester resin based. Epoxy is stronger and less brittle, but most boats were/are built with polyester - so the concensus is that polyester is good enough if you properly grind and clean (acetone) the hull where you plan to bond using polyester. Epoxy is better and perhaps gives you some "insurance", but not required. I personally wouldn't use 5200 anywhere other than as a sealant for mounting holes in the boat floor or holes in your transom (motor mounts, drain tubes, etc). I believe a few folks around here have used PL to bond their transom, but that is the minority. I'd go with a quality polyester or epoxy based PB mix and know that you are good. US Composites is one of the more respected and economical suppliers for these products. You'll spend a small fortune if you buy your fiberglass supplies at a walk in retailer.

You have a very good point. I can by all my resin locally it is vinalester and at a price of only 150 for 5 gallons with catalist I Live 5 minites from a company that builds fiberglass tanks . I also found a great deal on 1708 and roven a full roll of both for 60 bucks on kijiji. it had been sitting in his garage for 10 years in its original packaging but still looked new when opened

 

[ezmobee]

Re: PL and MY new transom

When you're already doing fiberglass work and have resin on hand (and thickeners are really cheap) then PB is gonna be WAY cheaper than PL and WAY WAY cheaper than 5200.

 

[GT1000000]

Re: PL and MY new transom

Ha guys new to the site Have been working on a complete rebuild on a 1984 wellcraft elite BR with a merc 260. This site seems to have many noligable guys so my question is why cant i pl my transom to the hull will this not hold? What is the real problem with this method ? I realize most guys use a fiberglass putty (PB) Im just curius as to why not pl and who has used it with succses?

PL can work...
You need to make sure of a couple of things...
1- you'll need to drill lots of vent holes so the PL in the middle of the piece has a place to out gas...{Do you really want to do that to your new transom? Although, you could do the drilling to the hull skin, then repair the fiberglass later...actually, whatever you use, whether it be thickened resin or PL, you'll still need to add some pressure relief holes...}
2-you'll have to work rather quickly and evenly to get this stuff spread out evenly on the whole piece and the hull inner skin to insure you get a good bond, before it starts to 'skin over' {Thickened resin, aka: Peanut Butter, will also require some speed and proper planning...}
3- you'll want to make sure you leave the surface of the hull a little rough, for good 'bite'...
4- then you'll have to let it sit at least 3 days to fully cure...

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: PL and MY new transom

GT1000000 answer is why! Check the first link in my signature for some good info on your transom install. The Strength of the transom comes from the Glass tabbing and the final full layers but the adherance to the hull plays a significant role in the overall structural integrity of the hull. If it delaminates you HAVE a problem

 

[flipbro]

Re: PL and MY new transom

Ok all very good points. Ive done a floor and stringers on my 20 foot tempest but the transom was rock solid. This new boat wellcraft needs every peace of wood in it replaced. So 4 my next question vinelester resin who has worked with it before. Is it a better alternative to poly from what ive gathered its the inbetween poly and apoxy My last boat i used all poly and had no problems but ive come across this vinal 4 150 for 5 gallons versase 200 for poly

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: PL and MY new transom

WOW where you Buyin your Poly. $25 bucks a Gallon is the going price for Poly. Vinylester for $30 bucks a gallon is a good deal. What kind is it? R U sure it's NEW and Not Old Shelf Life stuff!!!! Vinyl is nice but Poly is all you really need.

 

[flipbro]

Re: PL and MY new transom

Woodonglass Im located in southern ontario 1 gallon of 3m poly here is around 40 to 50 cheapest i have found. I live close to a company that makes fiberglass tanks aswell as small boat repairs he informed me it was a genaral purpose vinal and its what they use for boat repairs as for old or new stock i was not aware this was a problem till now! They bye it in 45 gallon drums and you bring your own container. I will definitly be asking about its shelf life thanks .Also is this VE easyer to work with then poly is there any benifits other then price Pros and cons

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: PL and MY new transom

Google & an iboats search are both very helpful if you are looking for info:

Google

Iboats

Loads of good info available...

 

[Jayboat66]

Re: PL and MY new transom

When you're already doing fiberglass work and have resin on hand (and thickeners are really cheap) then PB is gonna be WAY cheaper than PL and WAY WAY cheaper than 5200.

I used PL to my bayliner transom because was so could here in Michigan; so I used PL glue and later I place 1708 when the weather changed to 40's and I have a heater in my garage also PB around the gaps and after that: 1708. Of course is cheap PB vs. PL but some times works for small space.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: PL and MY new transom

Vinyl and Poly work almost exactly the same. The vinyl adheres a bit better and is a bit stronger and a bit more water proof. Again I think for your rebuild you'd be fine just using the Poly if it's fresh. Now I Know why your prices are so High. Canada is not "Resin Friendly" If you can get VinylEster for that price then Heck why not use it. It Does STINK more IMHO.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: PL and MY new transom

I used PL to my bayliner transom because was so could here in Michigan; so I used PL glue and later I place 1708 when the weather changed to 40's and I have a heater in my garage also PB around the gaps and after that: 1708. Of course is cheap PB vs. PL but some times works for small space.

PL doesn't cure very well in cold temps either, and often fails to bond the surfaces together as intended when it's too cold..........

I don't have the tech specs at hand, but I think PL has a similar optimal temp range for use as ploy resin.......
EDIT: Looked up PL Premium specs: use above 40*, so usable 10* cooler then resin..

 

[flipbro]

Re: PL and MY new transom

Well sounds like pl is out of the question on transom and i cant find cabisol without ordering it and i would like to get this transom in to keep my schedual Is the telc just as good as a thickner. Why couldnt i just wet 2 layers of csm to the hull and stick the new transom on and clamp it with my 2x4s? I have sanded the hull with 80 grite so it should bond well! also from how smooth it was i would say that is how it was built originaly. Im no expert by any means just a thought An would like your Thanks

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: PL and MY new transom

If the Transom skin is Smooth and has No gouges or serious irregularities then you could use 2 layers of CSM and clamp the Transom to the skin. No problem with doing that. You will still need to have some thickened resin for filleting around the edges. I would not recommend using talc since it promotes water absorption but people have used it in the past. I just don't recommend it with Poly. You can use it with Epoxy. Where are you located?

 

[GT1000000]

Re: PL and MY new transom

What "woody" said^^^...I just want to add...
Practice and rehearse the installation a couple of times to be sure you have everything ready to go...clamps, resin, cloth, tools, procedures, etc...
And if at all possible, get your self an assistant to lend a hand and make sure to rehearse with them...TRUST me, it will pay huge dividends when you go to actually do IT...

By the way, just in case...Cabosil is the same as Aerosil or Fumed Silica...just in case you are asking around to try and find it locally...do a search in your area for Paint and Body Supply Houses or Marine Suppliers...Heck even call up the local body shop that works on Corvettes...they might have some or be able to direct you where to get it...just a thought...

Good Luck and have fun on the upcoming install!

 

[flipbro]

Re: PL and MY new transom

Ok Woodanglass and GT1000000 Thanks for the info. Im located in sarnia ontario I will ask the guy were i buy my resin but he is closed today.I should have when i bought my resin BUT i was planning on good ol PL to work. On my last boat i did stingers and a floor And i pl the stringers then i used long strand fiberglass filler mixed with a little resin to do the fillets it seemed to harden and work very well WAS THIS A NO NO I then caped it all of with 1708. I run that boat in the great lakes for 5 years without any issues!(86 20 ft tempest with a 898 mercruiser and alph drive.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: PL and MY new transom

Long strand Filler for filleting is perfect. No Issues there. You can bed the Stringers in PL but It takes a Minimum of 72 Hrs for the PL to stop Outgassing. The Glass will NOT adhere to the PL if it is still outgassing and the thicker the PL is the longer it takes. The stringers should NOT touch the hull so a 1/8" to 1/4" bead of PL is all that's needed to keep them off the hull. Most people use WAY to much of the PL when bedding the stringers. I used to use PL but no longer do. It's your boat and you are free to do as you see fit. It's just my opinion. Not LAW. Heck I'm just an...

trying to help when and where I can. Do what YOU thinks best. That's what I do.